Forum on the Rapture

Forum on the Rapture


WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE
RAPTURE? I WAS BORN INTO A CHRISTIAN FAMILY AND RAISED
IN THE CHURCH. BUT AFTER HAVING GONE TO CHURCH
REGULARLY FOR 25 YEARS, IF YOU HAD ASKED ME TO DEFINE
THE WORD, RAPTURE, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SAID
IT’S THE SENSATION YOU FEEL WHEN YOUR GIRLFRIEND KISSES
YOU! IN ALL MY YEARS OF GOING TO CHURCH, I HAD NEVER
HEARD OF THE RAPTURE ONE TIME. SO, IS IT A BIBLICAL
CONCEPT? WHAT DOES IT MEAN? AND WHEN WILL IT OCCUR?
THESE AND MANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RAPTURE
ARE GOING TO BE ADDRESSED BY A PANEL OF BIBLE PROPHECY
EXPERTS ON THIS PROGRAM. STAY TUNED. [MUSIC] LAMB AND
LION MINISTRIES PRESENTS CHRIST IN PROPHECY, A
PROGRAM THAT FOCUSES ON THE FUNDAMENTALS OF BIBLE
PROPHECY, SHOWING HOW CURRENT EVENTS IN THE NEWS
RELATE TO BIBLICAL PREDICTIONS OF END TIME
EVENTS AND THE SOON RETURN OF JESUS. NOW, HERE’S YOUR
HOST, DR. DAVID REAGAN. GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF
JESUS, OUR BLESSED HOPE, AND WELCOME TO CHRIST IN
PROPHECY. AS YOU CAN SEE, I HAVE A STUDIO FULL OF PEOPLE
TODAY, ALL OF WHOM ARE EXPERTS IN BIBLE PROPHECY.
LET ME QUICKLY INTRODUCE THEM TO YOU AND THEN I WANT
TO KICK OFF THIS FORUM BY ASKING THEM A SERIES OF
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RAPTURE. FIRST IS GARY FISHER, A DEAR
FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS DIRECTOR AND FOUNDER OF LION
OF JUDAH MINISTRIES IN FRANKLIN, TENNESSEE RIGHT
OUTSIDE OF NASHVILLE. WELCOME GARY. GLAD TO HAVE
YOU WITH US. THANK YOU DAVE, GREAT TO BE BACK. NEXT IS MY
FORMER COLLEAGUE HERE AT LAMB & LION AND THIS IS
DENNIS POLLOCK. DENNIS MINISTERED TOGETHER WITH ME
FOR 11 YEARS BEFORE HE FELT CALLED TO ESTABLISH A
MINISTRY CALLED SPIRIT OF GRACE THAT IS LOCATED IN
MCKINNEY, TEXAS. ITS FOCUS IS THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA,
BUT HE GOES MANY PLACES TO MINISTER. WELCOME, DENNIS
GLAD TO HAVE YOU. WELL THANKS DAVE, ALWAYS LOVE TO
BE WITH YOU. AND DOWN ON THE END HERE OF COURSE IS NATHAN
JONES MY FELLOW EVANGELIST HERE AT LAMB & LION AND MY
CO-HOST ON THIS PROGRAM. WELCOME NATHAN. THANK YOU.
AND I WANT TO JUMP RIGHT INTO THIS. LET’S DO IT.
FELLAS I HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT ALL THREE OF YOU BELIEVE IN
SOMETHING CALLED THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH. AND SO MY
FIRST QUESTIONS IS HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING
CALLED THE RAPTURE WHEN IT IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED IN THE
BIBLE? WELL DAVE WE USE NAMES TO DEFINE INDIVIDUALS.
YOU KNOW IF MY WIFE WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE ABOUT ME
SHE WOULDN’T SAY, “WELL THAT OLD GUY THAT I MARRIED,
5’10” 170 POUNDS,” AND GIVE A LONG DEFINITION SHE WOULD
JUST SAY, “DENNIS.” AND IT IS JUST A LOT SIMPLER AND SO
WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO USE THE WORD RAPTURE AT ALL. WE
COULD SAY, “WELL I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THAT GREAT
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17. YOU KNOW THE ONE WHERE THE LORD
DESCENDS FROM HEAVEN WITH A SHOUT AND THE VOICE OF AN
ARCHANGEL. AND THE TRUMPET OF GOD, AND THE DEAD IN
CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST, AND WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN
WILL BE CAUGHT. YOU KNOW THAT.” BUT IT IS JUST A LOT
EASIER TO SAY RAPTURE. OR THE “GREAT SNATCHING AWAY.”
OR THE “GREAT SNATCHING AWAY.” OR THE “GREAT
SNATCHING AWAY,” WHICH THEY GET FROM 1 THESSALONIANS
4:17, “THEN WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE WILL BE CAUGHT UP,
TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN
THE AIR AND SO WE WILL ALWAYS BE WITH THE LORD.”
NOW THE GREEK WORD FOR CAUGHT UP IS “HARPAZO.” THE
LATIN WAS “RAPIO” AND WHEN WE ENGLISHIZE IT “RAPIO”
TURNS TO RAPTURE. SO IT IS IN THE BIBLE, IT IS RIGHT
THERE 1 THESSALONIANS 4:17. THAT’S RIGHT IT IS IN THE
BIBLE. IT IS IN THE LATIN TRANSLATION WHICH IS THE
ONLY BIBLE THE WESTERN WORLD HAD FOR ABOUT 1,300 YEARS.
YES. SO IT COMES RIGHT OUT OF THERE. IT DOESN’T HAVE TO
BE IN ENGLISH FOR IT TO BE A BIBLICAL WORD. RIGHT. AND
FURTHER MORE I WOULD POINT OUT THAT EVEN IF THE WORD
WERE NOT IN THE BIBLE IT REPRESENTS A BIBLICAL
CONCEPT JUST LIKE TRINITY DOES. ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT’S
NOT IN THE BIBLE. YEAH, THAT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE. OR
SHEKINAH GLORY OF GOD, WHICH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE BUT
REPRESENTS A CONCEPT THAT IS IN THE BIBLE. SURE. BIBLE IS
NOT IN THE BIBLE. THAT’S RIGHT. DID YOU HEAR THAT,
BIBLE’S NOT IN THE BIBLE. BIBLE’S NOT IN THE BIBLE,
TRINITY. I’M AMAZED BY THE RESISTANCE TOWARD THE WORD
BECAUSE AS WE HAVE ALREADY POINTED OUT THAT WORD SHOWED
UP IN THE LATIN VULGATE WHICH WAS PUBLISHED AROUND
400 AD, AND IT’S BEEN AROUND THAT LONG. AND WE TRANSLATE
IT INTO ENGLISH AND IT BECAME THE WORDS, “CAUGHT
UP,” AS YOU POINTED OUT AND THEN THE WORD DISAPPEARED.
AND THE WHOLE CONCEPT AS YOU POINTED OUT COMES OUT OF 1
THESSALONIANS RIGHT? YES. ALRIGHT, LET’S DEFINE
RAPTURE BECAUSE THERE MAY BE PEOPLE WATCHING WHO HAVE
NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THE TERM LIKE I DID GOING TO CHURCH
FOR 25 YEARS I NEVER HEARD IT. SO WHAT IS A SIMPLE
DEFINITION OF THE RAPTURE? WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
IT’S THE EVENT AT WHICH CHRISTIANS WILL MEET THE
LORD IN THE AIR WHEN HE DESCENDS TO RETRIEVE HIS
CHURCH. OK. YEAH, NATHAN TALKED ABOUT THE GREEK WORD,
“HARPAZO.” ACTUALLY YOU FIND THAT 3 TIMES IN THE NEW
TESTAMENT, ONCE IS THE 1 THESSALONIAN PASSAGE WHERE
IT TALKS ABOUT US BEING CAUGHT UP, OR SNATCHED. IT
IS BASICALLY MEANING A VIOLENT GRAB OR A SNATCH TO
TAKE SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF. YOU ALSO FIND IT WHERE JESUS
SAID, “I GIVE MY SHEEP ETERNAL LIFE AND THEY WILL
NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANYONE SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY
HAND.” IT IS THE SAME EXACT WORD, THEY WON’T RAPTURE,
THEY WON’T VIOLENTLY TAKE THEM AWAY FROM ME. AND THEN
ALSO WITH PHILIP WHEN HE BAPTIZED THE ETHIOPIAN
EUNUCH THE BIBLE SAYS WHEN THEY CAME UP OUT OF THE
WATER THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD CAUGHT PHILIP AWAY, SNATCHED
HIM AWAY. SO IT IS ESSENTIALLY CHRIST SNATCHING
THE CHURCH TO HIMSELF, AND EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE
WOULD DO. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE RAPTURE IS AN EVENT
SEPARATE AND APART FROM THE SECOND COMING? I WOULD SAY
THE DOCTRINE OF IMMINENCE. THERE IS NO WAY TO INSIST
THAT THE LORD CAN COME TODAY IF IT IS THE SECOND COMING
BECAUSE THE SECOND COMING HAS MANY PROPHECIES THAT
NEED TO BE FULFILLED BEFORE. BUT WE HAVE SCRIPTURES THAT
DEMAND THAT THE LORD COULD COME AT ANY MOMENT. SO YOU
ARE SAYING THAT THE BIBLE SAYS OVER AND OVER THAT THE
COMING OF THE LORD CAN BE ANY MOMENT, IT IS IMMINENT.
TODAY WOULD BE GOOD WITH ME. BUT THE SECOND COMING IS NOT
IMMINENT. IT IS NOT. THERE ARE MANY PROPHECIES THAT
HAVE TO BE FULFILLED. IT IS PROBABLY ANYTHING BUT. YEAH,
REALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE ALTERNATIVE FOR A
PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE AND THE IDEA OF CHRIST COMING
FOR HIS CHURCH AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION WHAT YOU
WOULD HAVE TO SAY THEN WOULD BE THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY
HE COULD COME TODAY BECAUSE WE HAVEN’T SEEN THE
ANTICHRIST. WE HAVEN’T SEEN ALL THIS DEATH AND
DESTRUCTION REVELATION PROPHECIES ABOUT. THERE ARE
SO MANY THINGS, YOU KNOW THE ANTICHRIST COMING INTO THE
TEMPLE SHOWING HIMSELF TO BE GOD, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF
THINGS. SO WHAT YOU WOULD DO IS YOU WOULD WAKE UP EVERY
MORNING SAYING, “NO WAY COULD JESUS CHRIST COME
TODAY.” BUT THAT GOES AGAINST THE VERY HEART OF
WHAT CHRIST IS TELLING US WHICH IS TO ALWAYS WATCH FOR
HIM, HE COULD COME AT ANY TIME. WELL NATHAN THERE IS
TWO MAJOR PASSAGES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ABOUT THE
COMING OF THE LORD, ONE IS IN 1 THESSALONIANS WHICH
TALKS ABOUT THE RAPTURE. AND THE OTHER ONE IS REVELATION
19 WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE SECOND COMING. THEY ARE JUST
AS DIFFERENT AS NIGHT AND DAY. SO THEY HAVE TO BE TWO
SEPARATE EVENTS. HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT? WELL SEE
THAT IS ONE THING ABOUT THE RAPTURE BEING SEPARATE FROM
THE SECOND COMING IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU READ THE PASSAGES
ABOUT THE RAPTURE LIKE YOU SAID 1 THESSALONIANS 4, AND
THEN 1 CORINTHIANS 15 AND SO ON. AND THEN YOU COMPARE
THEM TO THE SECOND COMING WHERE JESUS RETURNS TO EARTH
AND SETS UP HIS KINGDOM; MATTHEW 24, AND LUKE 21, AND
MARK 13. THEY TELL A VERY DIFFERENT STORY. FOR
INSTANCE AT THE RAPTURE IT TALKS ABOUT BELIEVERS, THE
CHURCH BEING BROUGHT UP TO JESUS IN THE CLOUDS AND THEN
GOING TO HEAVEN. BUT WHEN YOU READ ABOUT THE SECOND
COMING PASSAGE THE CHURCH IS RETURNING WITH JESUS FROM
THE CLOUDS TO GO DOWN TO THE EARTH. SO THERE IS A VERY
DIFFERENT STORY THERE. OR LIKE FOR INSTANCE WHEN THE
BELIEVERS ARE TAKEN UP INTO HEAVEN IT GIVES A DEFINITION
ABOUT THE MOUNT OF OLIVES. YOU KNOW NOTHING HAPPENS TO
THE MOUNT OF OLIVES. BUT WHEN JESUS RETURNS THE MOUNT
OF OLIVES SPLITS. I THINK DENNIS MADE A MAJOR POINT
THERE, THE RAPTURE IS AN IMMINENT EVENT, IT COULD
HAPPENS AS JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW 24, AT ANY TIME. BUT
THE SECOND COMING HAS 7 YEARS’ WORTH OF 21 JUDGMENTS
THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE SECOND COMING. AND IN
THE RAPTURE JESUS DOESN’T EVEN COME TO EARTH. THAT’S
RIGHT. YEAH, THAT’S TRUE HE NEVER STEPS FOOT ON THE
EARTH AT THAT TIME. BUT AT THE SECOND COMING HE DOES.
HE DOES, VERY DIFFERENT. BOTH CASES YOU HAVE JESUS
COMING FOR A MAJOR EVENT. THE FIRST CASE IS HIS
WEDDING, HE IS COMING AS THE HEAVENLY BRIDEGROOM FOR HIS
CHURCH TO TAKE THEM TO HIMSELF. THE SECOND CASE IS
HIS INAUGURATION WHERE HE IS COMING TO THE EARTH TO RULE
AND REIGN OVER THE EARTH AS LORD AND KING DURING THE
MILLENNIAL REIGN. [MUSIC] WELCOME BACK TO CHRIST IN
PROPHECY AND OUR FORUM CONCERNING THE RAPTURE. NOW
FELLAS, IF THERE IS GOING TO BE TWO SEPARATE COMINGS OF
THE LORD CALLED THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND COMING.
AREN’T YOU REALLY TALKING ABOUT TWO SECOND COMINGS?
YES. OH. DUH. WELL, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO COMINGS OF
CHRIST. I MEAN TRADITIONALLY SCHOLARS HAVE CALLED THE
SECOND COMING OR REFERRED TO THE SECOND COMING AS WHEN HE
COMES TO RULE AND REIGN ON THE EARTH. AND THE COMING OF
CHRIST FOR HIS CHURCH AS THE RAPTURE. BUT YOU KNOW AS
SHAKESPEARE WOULD SAY, “A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME IS
GOING TO SMELL JUST AS SWEET.” SO ESSENTIALLY
YOU’VE GOT CHRIST COMING TWICE, ONCE FOR HIS PEOPLE,
SECOND TIME TO RULE AND REIGN ON THE EARTH. THERE
ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE BOTHERED BY THIS CONCEPT.
BUT IF THEY WOULD REALLY THINK IT THROUGH THIS IS NOT
SUCH A FOREIGN CONCEPT BECAUSE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THERE WERE TWO STAGES OF THE MESSIAH COMING; ONE IS THE
SUFFERING MESSIAH, ANOTHER IS A GLORIOUS CONQUERING
MESSIAH. AND SO WE HAVE THE SAME SCENARIO IN THE NEW
TESTAMENT. SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING THEN IS THE SECOND
COMING IS GOING TO BE IN TWO STAGES. IT IS. THAT IS HOW I
LIKE TO LOOK AT IT. I DON’T QUITE AGREE THAT IT IS TWO
SEPARATE COMINGS BUT THAT IT IS THE SAME COMING, IT IS
BOOKENDS, BOOKENDS ON THE EVENT OF THE TRIBULATION. 2A
AND 2B PERHAPS. YEAH, EXACTLY. I WAS JUST HAVING A
LITTLE FUN. BUT YEAH YOU’RE RIGHT. GARY MAKES AN
EXCELLENT POINT. YOU KNOW THERE IS NOWHERE IN THE
BIBLE WHERE IT JUST FLAT OUT SPELLS IT OUT FOR EXAMPLE
THAT THE MESSIAH WOULD COME FIRST TO SUFFER, AND SECOND
TO REIGN. I MEAN IT DOES SAY THAT BUT IT IS NOT PUT IN
SUCH PLAIN WORDS THAT YOU READ THE BIBLE THROUGH ONE
TIME AND IMMEDIATELY GET IT. YOU HAVE TO THINK, YOU HAVE
TO PRAY, YOU NEED TO BE LED BY THE SPIRIT. AND
EVENTUALLY BY THE TIME CHRIST CAME THERE WERE EVEN
SOME JEWS TALKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF A MESSIAH THAT WOULD
COME AND SUFFER. AND A MESSIAH THAT WOULD COME AND
REIGN. AND OF COURSE NOW WE JUST TAKE THAT FOR GRANTED.
BUT IT’S NOT SPELLED OUT PLAINLY. YOU KNOW IF YOU ARE
TRYING A CASE FOR MURDER THE ONE THING YOU WOULD
HOPEFULLY GET WOULD BE AN EYEWITNESS. THAT WOULD JUST
SETTLE IT RIGHT THERE. YOU KNOW SOME CREDIBLE WITNESS
TO SAY I PLAIN SAW THE GUY DO IT. BUT IF YOU DON’T HAVE
THAT THEN WHAT YOU DO IS YOU PILE UP CIRCUMSTANTIAL
EVIDENCE. YOU PILE UP ALL KINDS OF WEIGHT OF DIFFERENT
THINGS THAT ALL POINT TO THE SAME THING, I THINK THAT IS
WHAT YOU HAVE WITH THE RAPTURE. OK, WELL LET’S TALK
ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE
IN BOTH A RAPTURE AND A SECOND COMING BUT THEY
DISAGREE ON THE TIMING. SOME BELIEVE THE RAPTURE WILL
OCCUR AT THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING. PEOPLE WILL
BE TAKEN UP TO THE LORD AND THEN TURN RIGHT BACK AND
COME DOWN, KIND OF A YO-YO RAPTURE AT THE END OF THE
TRIBULATION. SOME PUT THE RAPTURE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
TRIBULATION. YOU FELLOWS ARE PUTTING IT BEFORE THE
TRIBULATION, PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE. NOW GIVE ME AN
ARGUMENT FOR A PRE-TRIBULATION FOR THE
TIMING BEFORE THE TRIBULATION, NATHAN. WELL
ONE OF THE STRONGEST I THINK IS 2 THESSALONIANS WHEN IT
TALKS ABOUT THE RESTRAINER WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE
WORLD WHEN THE ANTICHRIST COMES. AT THE BEGINNING OF
THE TRIBULATION THE ANTICHRIST IS INTRODUCED TO
THE WORLD HE SETS UP A PEACE COVENANT WITH ISRAEL AND THE
RESTRAINING INFLUENCE OF GOD IS TAKEN OUT OF THIS EARTH.
AND I’VE ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT THE RESTRAINING
INFLUENCE OF GOD IS THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH THE CHURCH.
YES. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS WORKING
DURING THE TRIBULATION TO BRING PEOPLE TO CHRIST. BUT
TO REMOVE THAT RESTRAINER WHAT IS THE RESTRAINT? THE
RESTRAINT IS THE CHURCH. SO THE CHURCH ISN’T THERE IN
THE TRIBULATION. HOW ABOUT YOU GARY WHAT IS AN ARGUMENT
FOR IT? WELL, AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO THAT WORD
IMMINENCE. YES. BECAUSE THE TRIBULATION STARTS WITH
PROPHETIC EVENTS AND THEY ESCALATE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO
THE SECOND COMING. BUT WE ARGUE FROM OTHER SCRIPTURES
THAT THE RAPTURE CAN OCCUR AT ANY MOMENT. SO THEREFORE
IF IT CAN OCCUR AT ANY MOMENT IT OBVIOUSLY HAS TO
BE BEFORE ANY OF THESE PROPHESIED SIGNS TAKE PLACE.
SO, TODAY WOULD BE GOOD. HOW ABOUT YOU? ANYTHING YOU WANT
TO ADD TO THAT ABOUT WHY YOU WOULD PUT IT BEFORE THE
TRIBULATION? YEAH, WELL, THERE IS THE WHOLE IDEA OF
US NOT BEING SUBJECT TO THE WRATH OF GOD. THERE YOU GO.
YEAH, THAT IS A GOOD ONE. THERE IS THE CONCEPT OF LOT
AND HIS FAMILY BEING PULLED OUT BEFORE THE FIRE FALLS.
YOU KNOW WE ARE NOT SUBJECT TO WRATH BUT TO OBTAIN
SALVATION THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. SO I MEAN THAT
IS A LOT. BUT I THINK THE POINT OF IMMINENCE IS SO FAR
ABOVE EVERY OTHER ARGUMENT THAT IT DESERVES THE HIGHEST
PLACE. CLEARLY WE HAVE TO LOOK FOR THE COMING OF
CHRIST AT ANY MOMENT. WELL, I WOULD AGREE AND IT IS OVER
IN 1 THESSALONIANS ALSO. I AM TRYING TO FIND IT HERE.
WHERE IT SPEAKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE ARE WAITING FOR
THE LORD TO COME FROM HEAVEN. YEAH,
1 THESSALONIANS 1:10 WE ARE WAITING FOR HIS SON FROM
HEAVEN WHO HE RAISED FROM THE DEAD THAT IS JESUS WHO
WILL DELIVER US FROM THE WRATH THAT IS TO COME. WOW.
YEAH. THAT’S A PRETTY STRONG STATEMENT IN BEHALF OF A
PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE. ABSOLUTELY. LET ME ASK YOU
THIS ARE THERE ANY SYMBOLIC TYPES OF THE RAPTURE IN THE
OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES? OH, YEAH. I MEAN LOOK AT LOT
FOR INSTANCE WHEN LOT WAS IN SODOM AND GOMORRAH AND THE
TOWNS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DESTROYED BY GOD, THE WRATH
OF GOD ON THOSE TOWNS. HE SENT ANGELS TO PULL LOT AND
HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTERS OUT OF THAT TOWN, BEFORE GOD’S
WRATH CAME. I MEAN GOD COULD HAVE DESTROYED THE ENTIRE
TOWN INCLUDING LOT BUT HE RESCUED THE RIGHTEOUS
PEOPLE. AND GOD ALWAYS RESCUES THE RIGHTEOUS. WELL
I LIKE NATHAN’S POINT. JESUS HIMSELF CHOSE TWO OF THESE
RAPTURE TYPES AND HE SAID, “JUST AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS
OF NOAH,” LUKE 21, “SO SHALL IT BE IN THE DAYS OF THE
COMING SON OF MAN.” AND THEN HE ADDED LOT TO THE LIST,
“JUST AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF LOT.” SO WHAT DO THOSE 2
HAVE IN COMMON? THE WORLD HAS GONE CORRUPT, GOD IS
MAD, HE’S GETTING READY TO JUDGE. AND WHAT DOES HE DO
IN BOTH CASES? PULL THE RIGHTEOUS OUT AND THEN THE
JUDGMENT FALLS. IN FACT IN REGARD TO NOAH I WOULD ARGUE
THAT THE TYPE OF THE RAPTURE THERE REALLY IS HIS TAKING
ENOCH OUT OF THE WORLD. ENOCH WAS A GENTILE, THAT’S
A TYPE OF THE CHURCH, HE TAKES HIM OUT AND THEN THE
FLOOD OCCURS AND HE PRESERVES NOAH AND HIS
FAMILY THROUGH THE FLOOD AS HE IS GOING TO PRESERVE THE
JEWISH REMNANT THROUGH THE FLOOD. BUT THOSE ARE PRETTY
CLEAR SYMBOLIC TYPES. THERE IS ONE OTHER ONE I WOULD
LIKE TO ADD BUT BEFORE I GET TO THAT OLD TESTAMENT
ILLUSTRATION I WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION WHAT DOES MR.
ROGERS HAVE TO DO WITH THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH? I
WOULD LIKE YOU TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. THEN I WILL
ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BELIEVE IT OR NOT THERE IS A
SIGNIFICANCE. IF YOU REMEMBER THE THEME SONG OF
MR. ROGER’S, “IT’S A BEAUTIFUL DAY IN THE
NEIGHBORHOOD.” OH, YEAH. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HE DOES
WHEN HE COMES IN? HE TAKES HIS… GO AHEAD TELL US.
YEAH, HE TAKES OFF HIS SWEATER, PUTS ON ANOTHER
ONE, AND SWITCHES HIS SHOES OUT, RIGHT. HE GETS
COMFORTABLE. HE SINGS ABOUT WHAT A BEAUTIFUL DAY IT IS.
HE TAKES OFF HIS SPORT JACKET AND HE PUTS ON A
SWEATER. HE TAKES OFF HIS DRESS SHOES, HE PUTS ON SOME
SNEAKERS. HE GETS COMFORTABLE. NOW YOU SAY
WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THAT HAVE TO DO? WELL THAT IS THE
EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT JESUS TELLS US TO DO, AND WHAT WE
FIND IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. LET ME READ WHAT GOD TOLD
ISRAEL TO DO WHEN THE PASSOVER WOULD ARRIVE. HE
SAID, “THIS IS THE WAY YOU EAT THE PASSOVER, WITH A
BELT AROUND YOUR WAIST, YOUR SANDALS ON YOUR FEET, YOUR
STAFF IN YOUR HAND.” HE SAID, “YOU EAT IT IN HASTE.”
REMEMBER WHEN YOU WOULD EAT TOO FAST, AND MOMMA WOULD
SAY, “DON’T GULP YOUR FOOD.” GOD SAYS, “EAT IT FAST.” HE
SAYS, “KEEP YOUR STAFF IN YOUR HAND.” IN OTHER WORDS
DON’T BE LIKE MR. ROGERS, DON’T GET ALL COMFORTABLE
BECAUSE YOU COULD GO AT ANY TIME. NOW LET ME GO OVER TO
WHAT JESUS SAYS, HE SAYS, “LET YOU WAIST BE GIRDED
ABOUT.” WELL YOU KNOW YOU DON’T UNDO THE ROBE, YOU
DON’T GET COMFORTABLE. KEEP YOUR LAMPS BURNING, DON’T
TURN OUT THE LIGHTS YET. IN OTHER WORDS BE READY TO
LEAVE AT ANY TIME. I THINK REALLY BOTH OF THOSE ARE
TELLING US ALWAYS BE READY, I COULD COME AT ANY TIME. [MUSIC] WELCOME BACK TO CHRIST IN PROPHD
OUR FORUM ABOUT THE RAPTURE. FELLOWS LET’S GET O
SOME CRITICISMS THAT PEOPLE OFTEN MAKE ABOUT THE CONT
OF THE RAPTURE. AND THE FIRST ONE IS THIS, MANY ARGUE TT
THE CHURCH ABSOLUTELY MUST GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION
IN ORDER FOR THE CHURCH TO BE CLEANSED. WHAT ABOUT IT?
THE BIGGEST ARGUMENT I HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO WRITE INTO
THE MINISTRY ALL THE TIME IS THAT MANKIND HAS ALWAYS HAD
TO ENDURE SOME KIND OF TRIBULATION. THE CHURCH
WE’VE SUFFERED, THERE ARE CHRISTIANS SUFFERING WE ARE
LIVING IN A TIME OF GREAT SUFFERING. BUT THEY GET
THEIR SEMANTICS MIXED UP. THERE IS TRIBULATION BEFORE
THE CHURCH. BUT THE TRIBULATION DANIEL’S 70TH
WEEK IS A SEPARATE TIME PERIOD. IT IS A TITLE NOT A
VERB SO TO SPEAK. SO YEAH WE HAVE TO SUFFER ALL THE TIME,
THE CHURCH IS SUFFERING. BUT THE TRIBULATION IS GOD’S
WRATH UPON THE WORLD. IT IS DIFFERENT IT IS LIKE THE
FLOOD. AND THE CHURCH VERSE AFTER VERSE DOES NOT HAVE TO
SUFFER THE WRATH OF GOD. I MEAN YOU CAN READ REVELATION
3:10 FOR INSTANCE, “BECAUSE YOU HAVE KEPT MY COMMAND TO
ENDURE, I WILL ALSO KEEP YOU FROM THE HOUR OF TESTING
THAT IS GOING TO COME OVER THE WHOLE WORLD TO TEST
THOSE WHO LIVE ON THE EARTH.” DOES THE CHURCH NEED
TO BE CLEANSED BY THE TRIBULATION? THIS ISSUE IS A
SPILL-OVER FROM MAN’S TENDENCY TO BELIEVE HE HAS
TO WORK HIS OWN SALVATION OUT. AND BACK IN THE 1500’S
THERE WAS A GUY WHO NAILED “95 THESIS,” ON THE WALL
BECAUSE THEY HAD BY THAT TIME WORKED IT OUT THAT MAN
HAD TO WORK HIS OWN SALVATION OUT. AND NO,
SALVATION IS BY GRACE, THROUGH FAITH AND THAT NOT
OF YOURSELVES LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. AND SO THE
BLOOD OF JESUS IS THE ONLY THING. SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.
IT IS THE ONLY THING THAT CAN CLEANSE US FROM SIN. AND
A MILLION TRIBULATIONS WOULDN’T BE ENOUGH TO CLEAN
MAN UP TO STAND BEFORE GOD. AMEN. LET ME ADD THIS TO
THAT, SUPPOSE A GUY COMES IN THE STUDIO JUST COVERED WITH
MUD, JUST ABSOLUTELY FILTHY. AND I SAY, “EXCUSE ME I NEED
TO CLEANSE THIS GUY.” AND I GO AND I FIND A GUN AND I
SHOT HIM DEAD. I SAY, “OK, HE’S CLEANSED.” THEY ARE
GOING TO SAY, “NO HE’S NOT CLEANSED HE’S DEAD. NOT
CLEANSED DEAD.” WHEN YOU READ REVELATION, YEAH THERE
IS A LOT OF SUFFERING, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF DEATH. I
MEAN PROBABLY BILLIONS OF PEOPLE DYING. IF YOU TAKE IT
FOR THE WAY IT READS THAT IS NOT CLEANSING THAT IS JUST
KILLING. AND IF THE CHURCH MUST GO THROUGH THAT CHANCES
ARE WE WOULD NEVER LIVE THROUGH IT ANYWAY SO IT
WOULD BE VERY HARD TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THE COMING OF
CHRIST. SO NO, IT IS THE BLOOD OF JESUS THAT CLEANSES
US. OR EVEN THE PARTIAL RAPTURE THEORY WHERE THEY
BELIEVE THAT ONLY CERTAIN PEOPLE ANTICIPATING THE
LORD’S RETURN WILL BE TAKEN, THE REST OF THE CHURCH HAS
TO SUFFER BECAUSE THEY WEREN’T LOOKING FORWARD. BUT
I’VE FOUND AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT IS A FORM OF CHRISTIAN
SNOBBERY, THIS IDEA THAT THEY OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE IN
THE GROUP THAT IS GOING TO BE RAPTURED UP AND NOT HAVE
TO ENDURE THE TRIBULATION. WELL ACTUALLY WHEN YOU ARGUE
THE CHURCH HAS TO GO THROUGH TRIBULATION TO BE CLEANSED
WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS CREATING A PROTESTANT
PURGATORY. YEAH. YEAH, AND A LOT OF PREACHERS IN THE OLD
DAYS ESPECIALLY, MAYBE NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE WOULD USE
THAT AS KIND OF A HAMMER TO KEEP THEIR AUDIENCE IN LINE.
EVEN MY MOM USED TO TELL ME THAT SHE WOULD HAVE
PREACHERS THAT WOULD SAY, “WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF JESUS
WOULD COME BACK AND YOU’D BE IN A THEATER WATCHING A
MOVIE?” IN OTHER WORDS BOY, YOU’D BE SURE TO STAY
BEHIND. OK, MANY CRITICS ARGUE THAT A BELIEF IN A
PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE CONSTITUTES AN ESCAPIST
MENTALITY. I’M ONE. YOU’RE GOING TO CONFESS, RIGHT HERE
ON NATIONAL TV? LUKE 21:36, “PRAY IN ORDER THAT YOU MAY
HAVE STRENGTH TO ESCAPE THESE THINGS.” AND JESUS
SAID THAT. JESUS SAID THAT. WHY DID HE SAY, “WHY DON’T
YOU PRAY IN ORDER TO HAVE STRENGTH TO ENDURE?” YEAH. I
MEAN COULD YOU IMAGINE GOING UP TO NOAH AS HE IS ABOUT TO
GET INTO THE ARK AND ESCAPE FROM THE FLOOD AND SAY,
“EXCUSE ME NOAH BUT YOU ARE REALLY BEING CARNAL HERE. I
MEAN YOU ARE AN ESCAPIST. IF YOU WERE REALLY SPIRITUAL
CLIMB A TREE AND BELIEVE GOD.” (LAUGHING) OK, WELL I
THINK THAT PRETTY WELL SUMS THAT UP. ALRIGHT, LET ME ASK
YOU THIS, SOME OF THE CRITICS OF THE
PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE CONCEPT ARGUE THAT IT IS TOO
NEW TO BE TRUE BECAUSE THEY ARGUE THE CONCEPT DIDN’T
EVEN COME INTO EXISTENCE UNTIL THE 19TH CENTURY. HOW
ABOUT IT? HORSE PUCKY. I THINK THAT IS THE WORD, I’M
GOING TO BE A TENNESSEAN LIKE GARY HERE. YOU KNOW
DENNIS USUALLY SAYS, “BOLOGNA.” BOLOGNA, ALRIGHT,
WELL THIS IS TEXAS SO WE USE HORSE PUCKY. ALL OF THE
ABOVE. THE WHOLE IDEA THAT DARBY BACK IN THE 1800’S
LISTENED TO SOME 15 YEAR OLD GIRL, MCDONALD AND JUST CAME
UP WITH THIS IDEA IS JUST NONSENSE. IT WAS TALKED
ABOUT IN THE BIBLE. NOW IN THE EARLY CHURCH THEY WERE
CONCENTRATED ON JUST SURVIVING, THEY WEREN’T
CONCENTRATING ON THE TRIBULATION. BUT YOU CAN
READ BARNABAS, AND PAPIAS, AND JUSTIN MARTYR. YOU CAN
GO IN THE MIDDLE AGES LIKE BROTHER DOLCINO. YOU CAN GO
INTO MORE CURRENT TIMES REFORMATION ERA WILLIAM
WITHERBY AND JAMES MACKNIGHT. ALL THESE OTHER
PEOPLE THEY TALKED ABOUT A SECOND COMING AND A RAPTURE
THAT ARE SEPARATE AND A RAPTURE USUALLY THAT IS
IMMINENT, BEFORE THE TRIBULATION. SO IT WAS WELL
TALKED ABOUT BEFORE DARBY CAME ON THE SCENE. WELL YOU
CAN THROW JESUS AND THE APOSTLE PAUL IN THERE TOO,
BROTHER. BUT I BELIEVE THE STRONGEST ARGUMENT HERE IS
NOT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE FIRST CENTURY,
SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH, FIFTH, SIXTH, AND SEVENTH
AND ON AND ON. THE QUESTION IS DOES THE BIBLE SUPPORT
THIS DOCTRINE? YES. CAN WE GO TO THE BOARD AND FIND
THAT DOCTRINE BUILT THERE? AND I THINK WE HAVE ALREADY
MADE A PRETTY GOOD CASE FOR THAT. WELL WE HAVE EXAMPLES
TOO IN HISTORY OF PEOPLE DISCOVERING THE TRUTH OF THE
BIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE IN THE REFORMATION, BY THE TIME OF
THE REFORMATION EVERYBODY THOUGHT YOU HAD TO WORK YOUR
WAY TO HEAVEN. RIGHT. SUDDENLY MARTIN LUTHER SAYS,
“HEY, THAT’S NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.” YEAH, AND WHEN
YOU READ LUTHER YOU FIND THAT THE BIGGEST ARGUMENT
THE CHURCH OF HIS DAY HAD AGAINST WHAT HE WAS TEACHING
WAS WE’VE BELIEVED THIS FOR 1,000 YEARS, WHO ARE YOU
LITTLE MAN TO COME ALONG AND TELL US THAT WE HAVE BEEN
WRONG ALL THIS TIME. AND FURTHER MORE WHEN IT COMES
TO BIBLE PROPHECY ONE OF THE PROBLEMS YOU HAVE IS THAT
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN 400 AD ACCEPTED THE AMILLENNIAL
VIEWPOINT. AND BROTHER, IF YOU VIOLATED THAT YOU WERE
BURNED AT THE STAKE. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE DOCTRINES THAT
THE CHURCH IS THE KINGDOM AND THAT’S IT, AND YOU CAN’T
ARGUE ANYTHING ELSE. AND THEY SUPPRESSED ALL OTHER
WRITINGS THEY DESTROYED WRITINGS. WE DON’T KNOW FOR
SURE WHAT ALL PEOPLE WROTE DURING THE MIDDLE AGES
BECAUSE THEY WERE KILLED OFF AND THEIR WRITINGS WERE
DESTROYED. THE COMMON MAN DIDN’T HAVE THE SCRIPTURES.
REALLY THE REVIVAL OF BIBLE PROPHECY OCCURRED WHEN
PEOPLE GOT THE SCRIPTURES IN THEIR HANDS IN THEIR OWN
LANGUAGES AND SUDDENLY THEY BEGAN TO READ IT AND SAY,
“HEY, ISRAEL IS GOING TO BE RE-ESTABLISHED.” AND THE
PURITANS 500 YEARS AGO BEGAN TO ARGUE THIS AND PEOPLE
SAID, “WELL YOU ARE NUTS IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.” BUT THEY
WERE JUST TAKING THE BIBLE FOR WHAT IT SAYS. AND SIMPLY
AS PEOPLE BEGAN TO STUDY BIBLE PROPHECY THE CONCEPT
OF THE RAPTURE BEGAN TO EMERGE VERY CLEARLY. YEAH,
AND THAT’S THE THING. PEOPLE ARE STUDYING IT. BOOKS ARE
BEING WRITTEN. PEOPLE ARE TEACHING IT, PEOPLE LIKE
YOU. AS A SPECIALTY WITH GOD’S CALLING ON OUR LIVES
AND IT IS BECOMING MUCH MORE WIDESPREAD THAN IT EVER WAS
BEFORE THE IDEA OF THE RETURN OF CHRIST AND THE
PROPHECIES AND I THINK THAT IS ALL PART OF GOD’S PLAN.
ANOTHER CRITICISM THAT PEOPLE OFTEN SAY, “WELL THE
RAPTURE IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE OLIVET DISCOURSE, IN
JESUS’ LONG DISCOURSE ABOUT THE END TIMES. IT IS NOT
MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION SO HOW CAN YOU
BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE?” I THINK IT IS INTERESTING DAVE
THAT THE PEOPLE WHO USE THAT ARGUMENT WILL BE THE FIRST
ONES TO JUMP INTO MATTHEW 24, THE OLIVET DISCOURSE AND
THEY WILL USE MATTHEW 24:42 AND 44 TO ARGUE THE
IMMANENCY OF THE RAPTURE. BUT THEN THEY MAINTAIN THERE
IS NOT RAPTURE THERE. SORRY BUT I CAN’T PLAY THAT GAME
WITH YOU GUYS. I BELIEVE THERE IS A REFERENCE THERE.
I ALSO BELIEVE THERE IS A REFERENCE AND NATHAN HAS
ALREADY USED THAT SCRIPTURE, “BECAUSE THOU HAS KEPT THE
WORD OF MY PERSEVERANCE,” REVELATION 3:10, “I WILL
ALSO KEEP YOU FROM THE HOUR OF TESTING THAT HOUR ABOUT
TO COME UPON THE WHOLE WORLD.” SO THERE ARE LOTS OF
REFERENCES TO THE RAPTURE. YEAH, IN THE MIDST OF
REVELATION I FORGET THE EXACT CHAPTER BUT IT IS LIKE
A LITTLE PARENTHETICAL COMMENT THAT JESUS MAKES,
“I’M COMING AS A THIEF, BLESSED IS HE WHO WATCHES
AND KEEPS HIS GARMENTS.” GOOD ONE. “LEST HE WALK
NAKED AND THEY SEE HIS SHAME.” SO THERE ARE HINTS
TO IT. IT DOESN’T NECESSARILY MEAN IT IS
HAPPENING RIGHT THERE AT THAT POINT IN THE BOOK OF
REVELATION. BUT IT DOES CLEARLY SERVE AS A WARNING
THAT CHRIST COULD COME AT ANY TIME. DENNIS WHAT IF
SOMEBODY IS WATCHING RIGHT NOW WHO IS HEARING ABOUT THE
RAPTURE FOR THE FIRST TIME; THAT JESUS IS GOING TO
APPEAR IN THE HEAVENS ANY MOMENT, TO TAKE THE CHURCH
OUT OF THE WORLD. LET’S SAY THEY’RE NOT A BELIEVER WHAT
WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM? JUST LOOK DIRECTLY INTO THAT
CAMERA RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF YOU AND TELL FOLKS WHAT
THEY SHOULD DO. WELL THE MESSAGE DOESN’T CHANGE. YOU
KNOW WE MAY BE TALKING ABOUT SOME NEW THINGS THAT YOU
HAVEN’T HEARD OF BEFORE, OR YOU JUST HEARD A LITTLE
ABOUT THEM. BUT WE ARE NOT SAYING ANYTHING DIFFERENT
THEN WHAT PAUL SAID, AND WHAT JESUS SAID 1,000’S OF
YEARS AGO WHICH IS YOU NEED JESUS CHRIST. WE ARE ALL
SINNERS, WE HAVE ALL OFFENDED A HOLY GOD. AND AS
WE READ REVELATION WE READ ABOUT THE WRATH OF GOD BUT
IT’S NOT ENOUGH JUST TO SEE GOD’S WRATH IN A BIG COSMIC
PERSPECTIVE WHERE HE IS ANGRY AT THE WORLD AND HE IS
SENDING JUDGMENT. HIS WRATH IS ON EVERY INDIVIDUAL LIFE
AND THAT IS WHY WE NEED FORGIVENESS. AND THE BIBLE
SAYS, “GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, HE GAVE HIS ONLY
BEGOTTEN SON.” HE LOVED YOU. HE GAVE CHRIST FOR YOU THAT
YOU DON’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE WRATH, CHRIST TOOK IT
FOR YOU. RECEIVE CHRIST BY FAITH, BE BORN AGAIN, BE
FORGIVEN AND YOU’LL HAVE THE HOPE OF HEAVEN. THANK YOU
DENNIS THAT’S WONDERFUL. FOLKS, THE THING THAT YOU
NEED TO KEEP IN MIND HERE IS GO READ JOHN 3:36, JOHN 3:36
IT IS A SERMON BY JOHN THE BAPTIST AND IN THAT VERSE HE
SAYS THAT EVERY PERSON ON PLANET EARTH IS EITHER UNDER
THE WRATH OF GOD, OR THE GRACE OF GOD. GOD MUST DEAL
WITH SIN. AND HE DEALS WITH IT IN 2 WAYS, WRATH OR
GRACE. IT’S A GLORIOUS THING TO BE UNDER THE GRACE OF
GOD. IT’S A TERRIBLE THING TO BE LIVING UNDER THE WRATH
OF GOD. YOU WANT TO MOVE FROM WRATH TO GRACE REACH
OUT IN FAITH AND RECEIVE JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND
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TACKLE ANOTHER BIG ISSUE. YEAH, WE WOULD LOVE TO.
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QUESTIONS SUCH AS: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE? WHAT
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WHERE IS THE UNITED STATES IN PROPHECY? WHEN IS THE
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41 thoughts on “Forum on the Rapture

  1. 1 Thess 4:17 was referenced as evidence of the rapture…what about two verses prior "For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." – graves opened during the rapture? Or isn't it possible that the rapture takes away the bride of Christ (alive and asleep) to Heaven for the marriage supper and is in Heaven for 1,000 years?

  2. Not piling on here, but read Rev 20 where the 1,000 year reign is described.  Satan is bound on earth for a 1,000 years…why?  because the bride is in Heaven with Christ during the millennial reign.  And then returns with His bride and the beloved city..satan is destroyed, the books are opened, and the dead are judged.  You cannot keep taking scripture out of context. Read for yourselves please and don't just ingest what these "experts" are telling you.   

  3. ChristinProphecy, I'm hoping for a pretrib rapture and I feel there is a good case that can be made for it, but I also feel a good case can be made for a prewrath rapture or a rapture before the bowls occur.  It was mentioned in the video that nothing else needs to happen before the rapture occurs, however in Matthew 24 it appears the abomination of desolation needs to occur as well as the cosmic disturbances which read almost verbatim to Seal #6 in Revelation.  You can make a case that Seals 1-5 are also contained in Matthew 24 as well.  How do you address these scriptures in Matthew 24 in regards to a pretrib rapture?  It would appear that events do need to occur before the rapture.  Also, I would agree that God does not subject us to His wrath and in the video it was mentioned that the seals, trumpets, and bowls are all God's wrath.  The bowls for sure are God's wrath since it says it is in Revelation, the trumpets maybe, but the seals I'm not so sure.  Revelation does not explicitly say the seals and trumpets are God's wrath.  If you say the seals are God's wrath than you are saying that God is responsible for the martyrdom of his own people in Seal #5.  How do you address this with a pretrib view?

  4. thank you so much for this video. With all that's on the news it seems like we are not even in the last days anymore but more like the last of the last days.

  5. Remember, we are to be delivered from the wrath to come. That does not mean that we will not experience tribulation; that is troubling times. There is a persecution that is now upon Christians all over and it will only get worse. We need to persevere through this and, if need be, be martyrs like Stephen was. 

    God will not allow us to experience His wrath upon the earth but we may experience tribulation.

  6. The first resurrection takes place after Great Tribulation and not seven years before this terible Time. And the Bible declares that people that have part in it are blessed. Pre-tribers seems to not get it. There is first resurrestion then millennium and then secend resurrecion.

  7. THE FIRST COMING JESUS WILL NOT  COME TO THE EARTH  HE MEETS US IN THE AIR  THE SECOMING THEN HE STANDS ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES  YOU CAN NOT MIX THE JEW WITH THE CHURCH  THE BRIDE MUST BE GONE

  8. Two years ago I had no idea about any of this. The Lord then turned my life around and opened my eyes. He brought me to loads of Christian literature from many sources ie, The Bible, reference books, video clips and websites etc. I have digested all I could surrounding Pre, Mid, Post and other and so with an analytical view, an open mind, common sense, and a literal approach to scripture – I can only accept the Pretribulation Rapture as being logical and best supported and rationalised. With that said, I now feel we have arrived at the 59th minute of the eleventh hour and like the virgin bridesmaids, many proclaiming Christian Churches are either asleep or in denial. As Christians, we have our work cutout for us in this final act of mankind as we know it. Blessings to all.  

  9. I am pre tribber and premil return of Christ, but I still have problem with the any day and any moment timing.  God works of appointed time, or set time, not any day any moment.  I have several reasons why the rapture will happen on the set time. I will mention one.  If the imminent rapture is Biblical, when did the teaching start?  Some have said that Paul was looking for the rapture. Really?  Paul had to be uninformed of the prophecies because he was aware of the destruction of the temple and the scattering of the Jews to the four corners of the earth – all future to him.  Rapture could not have happen in his time.

  10. The reason "sheikina glory" not found in the bible is because its Jewish Babylon mysticism. Comes from the Talmud.

  11. These so called "Bible prophecy experts" (Romans 1:22) obviously do not read the Word. As is clear enough for a babe to understand that there is no pre, mid nor post rapture. Scripture cannot contradict itself, nor is Father the author of confusion, 1Corinthians 14:33.

    No man in history has ever been raptured (including Enoch and Eliyah).

    John 3:13
    And NO MAN hath ascended up to heaven,
    but he that came down from heaven,
    even the Son of man which was in heaven.

    Being no man has been raptured, no man can be raptured. As there is nothing new.

    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    The thing that hath been,
    it is that which shall be;
    and that which is done is that which shall be done:
    and there is NO NEW THING thing under the sun.

    Because the righteous are never removed.

    Proverbs 10:30
    The righteous shall NEVER BE REMOVED:
    but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

    Being the first guess opted to use the most over used rapture passage out there, 1Thess 4:17. Lets take a look at this passage in a concordance to see what it is really saying since so few define what they are reading.

    1Thess 4:17
    Then we which are "alive and remain" (1)
    shall be "caught up"(2) together with them in the "clouds"(3),
    to meet the Master in the "air"(4):
    and so shall we ever be with the Master.

    (1) see barn in Matt 13:30, as the tares go first, same as rapture people believe.

    (2) Caught up, concordance G726. Def: seize, carry off, claim for one self, snatch out, away.

    (3) Clouds, concordance G3507. Def: used of the cloud (pillar of fire) which led the Israelites in the wilderness.

    (4) Air, concordance G109. Def: air, particularly lower, denser air, distinguished from higher, rarer air.

    No where does it mention going up, flying away, leaving earth. But it does mention ground air, and does mention the Pillar of Fire. If one studies, and believes the passage prior, 1Thess 4:16. Then one understands the Pillar of Fire is Messiah w/o flesh (from the OT). For Messiah returns as the Pillar of Fire, as the ending is defined by the beginning. He does not return as a flesh man, as flesh cannot enter/exit heaven, 1Corinthians 15:50. And why we are told not to believe others if they tell us Messiah is here or there, Matthew 24:23-26. Yet the Antichrist will be flesh and deceive many.

    Better stock up your homes and follow Proverbs 6:6. As no one is going anywhere.

  12. Matthew 24:21 for then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been seen from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 and if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

    1. Why are the elect not raptured already ?

    Matthew 24:29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be, darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send our his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Mark 13:24 But in those days AFTER that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And the see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And THEN he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

    2. Who are the elect ?

    3. Why are they taken after the tribulation ?

    4. How can Christians be elect and taken before the tribulation ?

    I want pre-trib to be true. That would be nice. I prefer the words of Christ over these guys interpretation of Paul's writings. You can't say these scriptures I've copied are for jews only. That makes no sense to explain away inconvenient scriptures to your position by saying they don't apply to you. God bless you if you took the time to read this. Again I hope for pre-trib but just doesn't line up with whay Christ told us. The Lord commands us to stay awake because no one knows the day or the hour. Also through the lesson of the fig tree tells us when the time is near. Of course we do not know the day or hour but we have markers for when the draws near.

  13. A pre-trib rapture-how convenient for us in the west. We can keep going on our prophecy cruises while the rest of Christendom (those poor souls being beheaded and crucified in the Middle East) can go through their little tribulation!!  I like this doctrine!!

  14. you can not mix  jewish  with the  church   it  the  7 years are  the  final years of jacobs trouble

  15. No, the Seven year tribulation is different from the Day of Wrath, and It says that God will come as a thief in the night for those who are not awake and sober-minded…

  16. The rapture and the second coming (advent) of Jesus Christ is not a separate event.

    How do we know that those in Christ will not be raptured before the time of tribulations (the 7 plagues)?

    Typology!

    Were the Israelites freed from bondage before the 10 plagues of the Exodus? No they were most certainly not.

    This is what is meant by the patients of the saint's.

    what preceded the 10 plagues of the Exodus?
    An antisabbath law (Sunday law).

    It will be our faith that will be our shelter during the time of the final tribulation.

  17. BTW…The mark of the beast is the anti-Sabbath law or Sunday law (universal). It has already been made the law in the EU.

  18. "2 second comings"
    Nah sorry guys. Not buying it. Jesus is coming back. He's not coming half way back so y'all don't have to go through all the same kinds of things the early Christians had to go through.

  19. Isaiah 33:14-26

    The sinners in Zion (this is the church) are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

    He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

    He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
    (Jer 37:21)

    Nahum 1:7

    The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

    Psalm 91:7-11

    A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
    Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
    There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
    For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

  20. After the dead in Christ great tribulation martyrs are resurrected first, as we who remain alive till the second coming shall by no means precede those who sleep, but they are raised first, then we are caught up (raptured) to be with them in the air to be with the Lord.

  21. The post-70th week resurrection of the church (aka post-trib rapture) can be proven false by the Bible: Paul said every man would be resurrected in his own order: Christ the firstfruits and then those who are his at his coming (1st Corinthians 15:23-24).

    We see two groups of firstfruits in Leviticus 23: the wave sheaf (vs 9-12) and the wave loaves (vs 15-18). The wave sheaf is offered up with a lamb without blemish and this is clearly the firstfruits saints who rose bodily with Jesus in Matthew 27:52-53 (also read Revelation 14:1-5). The wave loaves are offered up 50 days later, and we know Pentecost came 50 days after Jesus' resurrection. The church was brought about on Pentecost, so we know the wave loaves resurrection will be for the church. Also, notice that there are TWO loaves. That stands for two days, or approximately 2,000 years – refer to Hosea 6:2, where Israel refers to 2 days when lamenting their imminent 2,000 year dispersion while the church comes to fulness.

    Therefore, we know the church falls into the "firstfruits" category of 1st Corinthians 15:23-24 and not "at his coming." Therefore, we know that the church gets resurrected before his second coming. So a post-70th week is ruled out.

    This matches up with what Jesus said in John 5:25 and John 5:28. Jesus said in verse 25 that the hour was coming "and now is" that those who hear the voice of the Son of God will rise from the graves. These two hours are the two first fruits resurrections. The words "and now is" referring, of course, to the saints who rose with him bodily (the wave sheaf) and the "the hour is coming" referring to the church (the wave-loaves). Then in verse 28, he says not to marvel at that, because there are coming two more hours when all of those both good AND bad in the graves shall rise, those that were good to the resurrection of life (right after the 70th week) and those who were evil to the resurrection of death (after the 100 year millenium).

    That gives us four hours, or resurrections, so far:

    (1)Firstfruits (wave-sheaf)
    (2) firstfruits (wave-loaves – the church)
    (3) the resurrection to life after the 70th week
    (4) and the resurrection to death after the millenium.

    Here's something neat: You can match those four hours up with the four watch hours given in Mark 13:35.

    Mark 13:35
    Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

    Now check this out:

    Firstfruits (wave-sheaf) Evening
    Firstfruits (wave-loaves, church) Midnight
    Resurrection to life – Cockcrowing
    Resurrection to death – Morning

    Notice that the church's resurrection is at midnight. Now, go read Matthew chapter 25 and notice that in the parable of the 10 virgins, the bridegroom comes for the bride at MIDNIGHT.

    Also, notice that Ruth, very much a type of the Gentile church, is with Boaz, the kinsman redeemer, at MIDNIGHT (Ruth 3:8).

    Also, notice that in the parable of the 10 virgins, the door is SHUT. Notice that Jesus tells the faithful church of Philadelphia that he has placed before them an open door and no one can shut it while it's open and once it's shut, no one can open it (Revelation 3:7-13). Notice that he says he will keep them from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world (vs 10). Also, notice that he writes on them the name of his wife, New Jerusalem (vs 12) and we can see in Revelation 21:9 and Hebrews 12:22-24 that the Lamb's wife is indeed New Jerusalem.

    That's just my take on it. Like anyone else, I could be wrong on some things, but all of that really seems to line up pretty solidly, especially that the church gets resurrected before the second coming.

    To be fair, I'm seeing some evidence that the church may go through the first half of the 70th week and that our resurrection may happen at the mid-point, but I'm still studying that out and haven't reached any conclusions.

  22. "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

    Isaiah 29:13‭-‬14 KJV

    https://bible.com/bible/1/isa.29.13-14.KJV

  23. Pre trib makes the most sense …. Jesus took our wrath on the Cross, when he died for our sins! we don't have to go thru more of God's wrath… It was finished on the Cross! Praise The Lord!! I trust in Jesus! Marantha! Come quickly Lord Jesus! Romans 10:9-13, John 3. If you're Born again you will go to heaven and be with the Lord! Accept Him and be saved from the wrath to come. Jesus said, I'm the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father but by me…if you don't know Christ, ask Him to reveal himself to you and ask Him to come into your heart. Be born again, John 3, Read the whole book of John and May God bless you!

  24. Fake analysis. ..hiiii how can jesus twice come .read the context properly. The first coming of jesus already occurred. Now we are waiting for his second ..don't deceive people. .

  25. I have experienced rapture in my house exactly before i resigned my job it happen my house malaysia 17 jalan helang 5 bandar puchong jaya 47170postcode selangor darul ehsan it happened my house address in 2010-2015 six years event raptured means i have passport visa worth 9000000years countless expiry i experienced in six years 2010/2011/2012/2013/2014/2015

  26. 3/15/2019 GOD IS CLOSER THAN EVER TO SEND CHRIST JESUS HIS SON TO TAKE US HOME TO BE WITH HIM, PRAISE THE LORD OUR GOD IN JESUS CHRIST NAME AMEN ✝ 🛐✝ 💕✝ 😘✝✝👑✝

  27. Thank you brethren.
    This makes clear sense.
    The marriage between RCC and Roman Empire could as well be fatal if it weren't for you and YT
    Peace from RCC

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