The U.S. Immigration Debate… | CUNY Forum

The U.S. Immigration Debate… | CUNY Forum


♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪>>GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BOB LIFF AND THIS IS THE CUNY FORUM, A MONTHLY TOWN MEETING THAT BRINGS PROMINENT NEW YORKERS TOGETHER WITH FACULTY AND STUDENTS OF THE EDWARD T. ROGOWSKY INTERNSHIP PROGRAM IN GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS. THE CONSTANT IN THE CHAOTIC AND ERRATIC ADMINISTRATION OF THE FORMER RESIDENT OF FIFTH AVENUE WHO NOW SITS IN THE WHITE HOUSE HAS BEEN THE DEMONIZATION AND SCAPEGOATING OF IMMIGRANTS, ESPECIALLY NON-WHITE IMMIGRANTS WHO DO NOT HAIL FROM HIS PREFERRED SOURCES OF IMMIGRATION LIKE NORWAY. THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE IS THE ADMINISTRATION’S UNILATERAL REDEFINING OF THE PROCESS BY WHICH REFUGEES SEEK ASYLUM, A TRADITIONAL MEANS BY WHICH THIS COUNTRY ESTABLISHED ITS SELF-PROCLAIMED MANTLE AS THE LAST BEST HOPE FOR HUMANKIND BY WELCOMING THE WORLD, IN THE WORDS OF THE POEM ON THE BASE OF THE STATUE OF LIBERTY, THE TIRED, THE POOR, THE TEEMING MASSES YEARNING TO BREATHE FREE. OF COURSE TRUMP’S IMMIGRATION DIRECTOR EVEN TRIED TO REDEFINE THE WORDS OF THAT POEM TO SAY IT MEANT NOTHING OF THE SORT. WHETHER IT IS THE BORDER WALL HE IS STRIPPING MILITARY FUNDING TO BUILD, THE CAGING OF CHILDREN AS PART OF A POLICY OF SEPARATING FAMILIES ARRIVING AT OUR SOUTHERN BORDER, OR THE RAID ON A MISSISSIPPI CHICKEN PROCESSING PLANT THAT SEIZED HUNDREDS OF UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS BUT SOMEHOW FAILED TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE EMPLOYER WHO HIRED THEM, WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A LONG-SUPPRESSED NATIVISM AND XENOPHOBIA THAT HAS BEEN RESURRECTED IN SERVICE OF TRUMP’S ATTEMPT TO WIN RE-ELECTION NEXT YEAR. AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN SPECIAL AIM AT NEXT YEAR’S CENSUS, TRYING TO GET AROUND COURT DECISIONS BARRING THEM FROM ADDING A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION. THAT WAS WIDELY SEEN AS AN ATTEMPT TO DISSUADE UNDOCUMENTED RESIDENTS FROM PARTICIPATING IN ORDER TO COST DEMOCRATIC CITIES IN PARTICULAR REPRESENTATION AND FEDERAL FUNDING BASED ON A CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED COUNT OF ALL RESIDENTS, NOT JUST CITIZENS. THE COSTS ARE IMMENSE, BOTH IN HUMAN TERMS AND ECONOMICALLY, ESPECIALLY IN THIS IMMIGRANT-HEAVY CITY WHICH, DESPITE THE ANTI-TRUMP AND PRO-IMMIGRANT POLICIES OF THE DAY, HAS NOT BEEN IMMUNE TO SOME OF THOSE NEGATIVE VIEWS OF IMMIGRATION AND IMMIGRANTS. ONE OF OUR GUESTS TODAY ARGUES IN A BOOK THAT IMMIGRATION IN NEW YORK DEMONSTRATES OUR TWO FUNDAMENTAL TRAITS, ECONOMIC DYNAMISM AND HUMAN DIVERSITY, THAT, QUOTE, HAS MADE US A CITY THAT INSPIRES DREAMS AND SPARKS CONFLICT BUT FRUSTRATES EFFORTS TO ESTABLISH ENDURING LEVELS OF ORDER AND GENERAL PROSPERITY, UNQUOTE. WE ARE JOINED TODAY BY FOUR NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE TAKEN PART IN DEBATES OVER IMMIGRATION, AND THE ECONOMIC, HUMANITARIAN AND POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THAT DEBATE. CATALINA CRUZ IS A MEMBER OF THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY FROM QUEENS, REPRESENTING IMMIGRANT-HEAVY NEIGHBORHOODS INCLUDING CORONA, ELMHURST AND JACKSON HEIGHTS AND WAS HERSELF AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT, A SO-CALLED DREAMER WHO ARRIVED FROM COLUMBIA AS A CHILD WITH HER FAMILY. J.C. POLANCO IS A BRONX LAWYER AND REPUBLICAN PARTY LEADER ALBEIT A NEVER TRUMPER, LET ME HASTEN TO ADD WHO IS ALSO AN ADJUNCT PROFESSOR AT CUNY’S BOROUGH OF MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE. DAVID REIMERS, A PROFESSOR EMERITUS IN HISTORY AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY, IS A CO-AUTHOR OF THAT AFOREMENTIONED AND RECENTLY-UPDATE BOOK, ALL THE NATIONS UNDER HEAVEN, IMMIGRANTS, MIGRANTS AND THE MAKING OF NEW YORK. AND FELIPE DE LA HOZ IS A REPORTER SPECIALIZING IN ANALYZING IMMIGRATION, AND IS CO-FOUNDER OF BORDER/LINES, A BLOG FOCUSING ON THE ISSUE. DAVID LET ME START WITH YOU. IN THE BOOK THERE IS A REMARKABLE CHART, RUSSIA, ITALY, EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WERE THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF IMMIGRANTS IN THE CITY AND NOW YOU HAVE TO GO WAY DOWN THE LIST BEFORE YOU COME TO THE FIRST EUROPEAN COUNTRY, I THINK IT IS NINTH OUT OF A TOP 10. WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?>>FOR ONE, THE LAW CHANGED. WITHOUT CHANGES IN THE LAW YOU WOULD NOT SEE A SHIFT. IT IS CHANGES IN LAWS, NOT JUST THE 1965 IMMIGRATION ACT. AS LAWS CHANGE THEY TENDED TO OPEN THE DOOR MORE, JUST AT ABOUT THE TIME THE EUROPEAN ECONOMIES HAD FULLY RECOVERED FROM THE WAR AND EUROPEANS WERE NO LONGER WANTING TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES. AFTER THE FALL OF THE SOVIET UNION, AND NUMBER OF RUSSIANS AND SO FORTH DID BEGIN TO COME AGAIN BUT EUROPEANS REPRESENT ONLY 10% OR LESS OF OUR IMMIGRANT POOL. AT THE SAME TIME, BECAUSE OF GLOBALIZATION AND THE SENSE THAT THE UNITED STATES IS A COUNTRY OF OPPORTUNITY AND AMERICAN CULTURE THROUGH TELEVISION AND TRAVEL, SPREAD ALL AROUND THE WORLD, OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES AND THEY HAVE SO CHOSEN TO DO SO. WE HAVE A BACKLOG, ABOUT 4 MILLION PEOPLE WANTING TO GET INTO THE UNITED STATES TODAY. THE DESIRE TO COME IS DEFINITELY THERE.>>THAT IS 4 MILLION PEOPLE WANTING TO COME LEGALLY.>>LEGALLY, THAT’S RIGHT.>>CATALINA, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE NEW TYPE OF IMMIGRANTS. YOUR FAMILY CAME FROM COLUMBIA. YOU WERE A DREAMER, AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT AS YOU WERE GROWING UP. THIS IS A PERSONAL ISSUE TO YOU, NOT ONLY TO YOUR DISTRICT BUT TO YOU.>>ABSOLUTELY. I UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO FLEE A COUNTRY WHERE YOU HAVE WAR, POVERTY, THAT IS THE REASON MY MOM DECIDED TO PACK EVERYTHING AND LEAVE. SHE WAS A MIDDLE-CLASS WORKING NURSE AND PACKED UP EVERYTHING BECAUSE THE COUNTRY WAS SO DANGEROUS. WE HAVE FOLKS COMING TO OUR BORDER DOING SOMETHING THAT IS LEGALLY PERMISSIBLE AND YOU SEE PEOPLE TRYING TO DO EXACTLY WHAT MY MOM DID FOR ME AND INSTEAD WE HAVE THE GOVERNMENT TURNING AROUND AND PUTTING KIDS IN CAGES, IT ANGERS ME AND WORRIES ME AND MAKES ME WANT TO WORK THAT MUCH HARDER FOR PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY. JUST TODAY, I HAD TWO OF MY CONSTITUENTS, HER SON GOT PICKED UP BY IMMIGRATION ON HIS WAY TO COURT TO ACTUALLY FACE THE LAW, THEY PICKED HIM UP. ANOTHER ONE WHO HAD TO COME INTO MY OFFICE BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID IF SHE GOES HOME, IMMIGRATION WILL SHOW UP AT HER HOUSE AND PICK HER UP. THESE ARE THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT, WHERE 60% OF THEM ARE BORN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY AND 40% OF THEM DON’T HAVE PERMANENT STATUS. MANY OF THEM ARE UNDOCUMENTED. FOR ME THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE PEOPLE I REPRESENT. THIS IS FOR THE MOTHERS LIKE MINE, FOR THE CHILDREN WHO ARE STILL LIVING IN THE SHADOWS.>>FELIPE, IN YOUR FIRST BLOG POST — IT’S A NEW BLOG, “BORDER/LINES” AND I RECOMMEND YOU ALL TAKE A LOOK AT IT — YOU QUOTED IMMIGRATION OFFICIAL WHO IS SPEAKING TO THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE SAYING THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO THROW SPAGHETTI ON THE WALL AND SEE WHAT STICKS, THEY’RE TRYING ALL KINDS OF THINGS. THE MOST RECENT ONE IS THE UNILATERAL REDEFINITION OF ASYLUM THAT YOU HAVE TO APPLY IN AN INTERMEDIATE COUNTRY, IF YOU’RE COMING FROM CENTRAL AMERICA, WHICH THE LARGEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE. JUST AS CATALINA SAID, HER MOTHER BROUGHT HER HERE BECAUSE THEY WERE FLEEING POVERTY, THEY WEREN’T — A CLASSIC DEFINITION OF WHAT ASYLUM WAS.>>RIGHT.>>IT IS COMPLICATED.>>ASYLUM — IT IS INDICATIVE OF THE TACTICS THE ADMINISTRATION IS USING WHICH IS THAT THEY HAVE CERTAIN STEPS TOWARD POWER UNDER THE LAW AND THEY TAKE WHATEVER THING THEY CAN GRAB ONTO AND EXPAND THAT WAY BEYOND ANY KIND OF INTENDED DEFINITION, ONCE A PARTICULAR LAW WAS PASSED. THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE ASYLUM LAW THAT SAYS IT IS POSSIBLE IF THERE IS A SAFE OTHER COUNTRY THAT SOMEBODY COULD HAVE GOTTEN ASYLUM PRIOR TO THE UNITED STATES. THAT HAS ONLY EVER BEEN DONE WITH SPECIFIC BILATERAL AGREEMENTS THE ONE WE HAVE WITH CANADA, NO ONE EVER TRIED TO DO IT WITH THIS BROAD-BASED WAY BUT THEY WILL THROW IT AT THE WALL AND THEY KNOW IT WILL GET TIED UP IN THE COURT. IT IS A COMBINATION OF THE FACT THAT THE EXECUTIVE DOES HAVE A LOT OF LATITUDE IN IMMIGRATION MATTERS AND THAT CONGRESS HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO ACT IN ANY WAY. TONS OF THINGS COMING DOWN THE PIPE EVERY WEEK AND COLLECTIVELY THERE WAS SOME IMMIGRATION ATTORNEYS AND OTHERS WHO ARE OBSERVING THIS INVISIBLE WALL. THESE OBJECTIVES HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED BY RULEMAKING AS OPPOSED TO POLICYMAKING.>>JC, THE POLITICS OF THIS IS A MESS. YOU AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND THE POLITICS FOR A LONG TIME. PARTICULARLY IN THE BRONX, WHERE YOU ARE, WHICH IS AN IMMIGRANT HEAVY BOROUGH. IT SEEMS CLEAR TO ME — WE ARE IN NEW YORK CITY, WE ARE KIND OF AN ISLAND OF TOLERANCE. ONE OF THE POINTS THAT DAVID MAKES, HE QUOTES SAYING THE QUESTION IS, WILL NEW YORK’S TOLERANCE SPREAD TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY OR WILL SOME OF THE INTOLERANCE OF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY COME INTO NEW YORK?>>I THINK NEW YORK CITY IS AN INCREDIBLE PLACE, IT IS KIND OF THE MESOPOTAMIA OF THE PLANET. OVER 100 PLUS LANGUAGES IN QUEENS ALONE. IT IS INCREDIBLE TO SEE THE DIVERSITY HERE. UNFORTUNATELY WITH THIS TOPIC, AND IN MY CLASSROOM, THERE IS NOT ONE HARDER TOPIC THAN IMMIGRATION. IT AFFECTS EVERYONE. IT AFFECTS PEOPLE YOU KNOW — YOUR FRIENDS, PEOPLE YOU HAVE HEARD OF, AND I THINK ALL OF US ARE COMPASSIONATE PEOPLE. WHEN I HEAR A STORY LIKE THE ASSEMBLYWOMAN’S IT IS VERY INSPIRING. I REMEMBER STUDENTS TELLING ME, PROFESSOR I HAD NO IDEA I WAS HERE ILLEGALLY UNTIL I WAS NOT ABLE TO ACQUIRE FINANCIAL AID. SINCE IT IS SUCH A SENSITIVE TOPIC, I FEEL THAT THERE ARE EXTREMES OUT THERE THAT ARE REALLY MUDDYING THE WATERS AND NOT MAKING THE DEBATE POSSIBLE. THEY ARE NOT ALLOWING US TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. ON THE ONE END YOU HAVE AN ADMINISTRATION THAT IS HELL-BENT ON STOPPING EVEN LEGAL IMMIGRATION. I BECAME A NEVER TRUMPER WHEN HE ATTACKED MEXICANS IN 2015, THE WAY THE ADMINISTRATION IS ATTACKING PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE ME. AS A COMPASSIONATE PERSON I AM CONCERNED. YOU HAVE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON ONE EXTREME AND THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. YOU STARTED THE SHOW THROWING BOMBS, EVERYTHING ABOUT — PUSHING BACK AGAINST IMMIGRATION YOU CAME OUT HARD AGAINST. WE HAVE ANOTHER EXTREME AND WE HAVE TO ABOLISH ICE, WE HAVE TO OPEN THE BORDER, NO MORE DEPORTATIONS. I WORK WITH THESE PROFESSORS IN MY DEPARTMENT. I AM THE ONLY REPUBLICAN IN THIS CENTER. I HEAR THESE TWO EXTREMES. THE TRUMP EXTREME AND THE NO MORE DEPORTATION EXTREME AND EVERYTHING ELSE GETS MUDDIED. WE ARE NOT ABLE TO HAVE AN HONEST SENSIBLE DISCUSSION AS TO THE DANGERS OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION, THE NEW CLASS OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES BEING PAID PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR AND BEING ABUSED. WE ARE NOT HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE THE EXTREMES ARE POLARIZING AND THEY ARE NOT LETTING US TO HAVE AN HONEST DEBATE. WE ARE AFRAID TO HAVE IT.>>THAT IS A VERY GOOD POINT BECAUSE I THINK IF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DOESN’T COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF OVERALL PROGRAM AND SIMPLY SAYS NO MORE ICE, THROUGHOUT ICE, DRY ICE APPEARS, YOU HAVE OTHER AGENCIES. IF YOU DON’T TALK ABOUT THE LIMITS AND WHAT IT MEANS, I THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GOING TO SAY THE DEMOCRATS ARE ALL FOR OPEN BORDERS AND THAT IS NOT A VERY GOOD ISSUE, ESPECIALLY IN PLACES LIKE NORTH AND SOUTH DAKOTA OR KANSAS OR IN THE MIDWEST, ESPECIALLY IN THE SOUTH. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. I PERSONALLY THINK WE NEED TO INCREASE IMMIGRATION FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS BUT ESPECIALLY CONCENTRATING ON THE DREAMERS, WHICH I THINK IS A NO-BRAINER DECISION TO BE MADE. YOU HAVE SOME SCREENING GOING ON BUT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS. JUST TO THROW OPEN THE WHOLE THING, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE A GOOD THING TO DO POLITICALLY.>>SO MUCH OF THIS IS ALSO ECONOMICS. THE MISSISSIPPI CHICKEN PLANT RAID IS AN EXAMPLE. ANOTHER ONE SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN IOWA, A KOSHER MEATPACKING HOUSE. HOW MUCH BUSINESSES DEPEND ON IMMIGRANTS, INCLUDING UNDOCUMENTED. ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY.>>IT IS NOT IN THE ECONOMIC BEST INTERESTS OF A LOT OF BUSINESSES FOR US TO HAVE AN OVERHAUL IN OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM. I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU AND THIS WHOLE THING OF — THE IDEA OF DEFUNDING ICE WOULD FIX OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IS RIDICULOUS. AS A LAWYER WHO REMEMBERS THAT WE USED TO HAVE SOMETHING CALLED INS AND WE DID AWAY WITH INS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE HAVE ICE, UNTIL WE OVERHAUL THE ACTUAL IMMIGRATION LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT LABEL WE GIVE THE AGENCY. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF WE FUND OR DEFUND IT. WE DO NOT HAVE A SYSTEM THAT RECOGNIZES THE ECONOMICS OF IT THE POLITICS OF IT AND THE HUMANITY OF OUR IMMIGRANTS. RIGHT NOW, IN OUR DISTRICT WE HAVE 13 WOMEN WHO ARE IMMIGRANTS, SOME ARE UNDOCUMENTED AND SOME ARE DOCUMENTED WHO HAVE BEEN DEFRAUDED BY THEIR EMPLOYER, THEIR WAGES STOLEN AND THE REASON WHY THIS EMPLOYER CONTINUES TO DO THIS IS BECAUSE THESE ARE IMMIGRANTS AND MANY OF THEM ARE UNDOCUMENTED WOMEN IN NEED. BUSINESSES DEPEND ON THAT. BUSINESSES DEPEND ON THEIR WAY OF DOING THINGS IS LET’S STEAL FROM THESE IMMIGRANTS AND THEN LET’S GET ANOTHER ONE AND ANOTHER ONE. THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO WILL GO IN AND DONATE THE CAMPAIGNS THAT WILL KEEP THE SAME KIND OF PEOPLE IN POWER THAT WILL ENSURE WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE AN OVERHAUL IN OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.>>I THINK IT IS PARTLY AN ISSUE, THE CHANGE IN BOTH MINDSET AND OVERSIGHT STRUCTURES. ICE AND ALL OF THESE THINGS PUT INTO HOMELAND SECURITY FOLLOWING THE CREATION OF THAT DEPARTMENT AS A DIRECT RESULT OF 9/11. IT USED TO BE UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WHERE THERE WAS MORE OF A OVERSIGHT STRUCTURE. IN HOMELAND SECURITY IT IS UNDER THE SAME UMBRELLA AS ALL OF THE ANTITERRORIST STUFF SO IT IS A CHANGE OF MINDSET AND IS MUCH MUDDIER IN TERMS OF WHO COULD PERFORM OVERSIGHT. IT IS A MORE OPAQUE DEPARTMENT OF THE GOVERNMENT. AS FAR AS THE ECONOMIC ISSUE — IT IS A LOT OF THE SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE RAILING AGAINST UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION AND AT THE SAME TIME RELYING ON THAT LABOR FOR THEIR BUSINESSES. THE PRESIDENT IS THE MOST FAMOUS EXAMPLE BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY OTHERS. THE PATHWAYS THAT EXIST FOR THOSE LABOR NEEDS TO BE MET, FOR EXAMPLE THE AGRICULTURAL VISA WHICH IS A TEMPORARY WORK VISA FOR FARMWORKERS USED A LOT IN NEW YORK, IT IS A MESS. THE PROGRAM IS A DISASTER. PEOPLE USE IT OUT OF NECESSITY BUT IF THERE WERE ACTUAL PATHWAYS FOR EMPLOYMENT NEEDS AND LABOR NEEDS, PEOPLE WOULD USE THEM. BY AND LARGE, THE PATHWAYS THAT EXIST –>>EVEN SOME OF THE VISAS WHERE BASICALLY A WORKER HAS ALMOST NO RIGHTS. THEY CAN BE DEPORTED.>>BLACKLISTED. IF THEY COMPLAIN THEY CAN BE BLACKLISTED.>>TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMICS, THIS IS VERY COMPLICATED. IMMIGRATION IS TOTALLY TIED INTO THE ECONOMY. IN THE YEARS AFTER THE NORTH AMERICAN FREE-TRADE ACT WAS PASSED, WHICH CREATED JOBS IN MEXICO ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE BORDER, YOU HAD A SAFETY VALVE. PEOPLE HAD A PLACE TO WORK IN MEXICO. THEY DID NOT COME UP HERE FOR ECONOMIC REASONS SETTING ASIDE THE ASYLUM ONES. IF YOU PUNISH THE COUNTRY SOUTH OF THE BORDER AND DAMAGE THEM, BECAUSE WE’RE THE 800-POUND GORILLA, YOU ALMOST PUT PRESSURE ON THEM TO COME HERE.>>YOU ARE FAILING TO AT LEAST MENTION THAT WE INVESTED HEAVILY IN LATIN AMERICA. NOT ONLY THE SOUTH BUT A LOT OF THE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION IS COMING FROM ASIA.>>THAT IS CORRECT.>>FOR SOME REASON WE JUST FOCUS ON LATIN AMERICA.>>IT IS BECAUSE OF THE PRESIDENT’S RHETORIC.>>AND THAT IS UNFORTUNATE. WE CANNOT ALLOW — THOSE SORTS OF EXTREMISTS ARE NOT ALLOWING US TO HAVE A SERIOUS DISCUSSION. YOU HAVE EVERY GROUP ON THE PLANET WHO’D LIKE TO COME HERE AND MANY OF THEM WOULD LIKE TO CUT THE LINE. YOU MENTIONED THERE WERE 4 MILLION PEOPLE WAITING TO COME HERE LEGALLY. THOSE ARE 4 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE PAID, THEY ARE WAITING, GETTING THEIR BACKGROUNDS CHECKED SO WE MAKE SURE WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND THEN YOU TELL SOMEONE THEY CAN SIMPLY JUST CROSS OVER AND TAKE A VISA AND EXTEND THE VISA AND DO ALL SORTS OF THINGS TO CUT THE LINE. WE HAVE TO FIGURE THIS OUT. AMERICANS DON’T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THAT ANYMORE. AMERICANS ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE CUTTING THE LINE. WE HAVE A COUNTRY THAT ELECTED IN 2016 SOMEONE WHO IS INCREDIBLY ANTI-IMMIGRANT, ANY KIND OF IMMIGRANT. THE COUNTRY IS YELLING LOUD AND CLEAR, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ISSUE BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ECONOMICS, YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE 26 STATES THAT BORDER THE SOUTHERN BORDER THAT SUED PRESIDENT OBAMA BECAUSE OF DACA WHICH I SUPPORTED. THEY SUED HIM BECAUSE THEY ARE SPENDING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SOCIAL SERVICES.>>DACA IS THE DEFERRED –>>THESE 26 STATES SUED THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE HE ISSUED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT WOULD HAVE AN INCREDIBLE BURDEN ON THOSE STATES THAT ARE SPENDING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS AND OTHER SOCIAL SERVICES. THE CITIZENS DON’T WANT TO PAY FOR THAT. THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THOSE STATES ARE PART OF OUR DEMOCRACY AND THEY ARE SAYING YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. SIMPLY ALLOWING ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HERE WITHOUT ANY SORT OF CHECK IS UNFAIR AND IT SOUNDS — FOR NEW YORK, BECAUSE WE ARE SO DIVERSE BUT WHEN YOU GET DOWN THERE IT IS NOT AS DIVERSE AND PEOPLE ARE LOSING JOBS BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING EXPLOITED. THESE BUSINESSES ARE EXPLOITING UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND THEY ARE PAYING THEM MUCH LESS THAN AMERICAN CITIZENS AND THEY ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT.>>WHAT WOULD YOU DO?>>THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS ALLOW FOR DREAMERS TO BE LEGALIZED.>>NO BRAINER.>>YOU WOULD THINK SO. WOULD YOU BELIEVE WE HAD THAT IN OUR HANDS AND BECAUSE THE EXTREMISTS WON’T LET IN, WE DON’T HAVE DREAMERS LEGALIZED ANYMORE. THAT WAS AVAILABLE. THE OTHER THING YOU DO IS YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT CLOSING THE BORDER. IT SOUNDS TOUGH BUT AMERICANS WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT CLOSING THE BORDER AND TAKING CARE OF THE PEOPLE WE ALREADY HAVE. WHATEVER THAT PROCESS IS, WHETHER IT IS NEVER BE A CITIZEN, BUT YOU ARE A LEGALIZED GREEN CARD HOLDER, THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT. SIMPLY DEPORTING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE IS UNFAIR AND INSANE. WE DID THAT WITH OPERATION BOOTSTRAP. WE HAVE TO BE HONEST AND HAVE THE DISCUSSION ON THE 11 MILLION HERE WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED AND ARE A HEAVY BURDEN ON MANY STATES.>>PART OF THE CONVERSATION THAT OFTEN GETS LOST IS THAT THOSE 11 MILLION PEOPLE ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE ECONOMY IN EVERY SINGLE STATE THEY ARE LIVING IN. WE CAN’T EVEN BENEFIT FROM IT. THERE IS THIS WHOLE NOTION THAT GETS REPEATED THAT WE ARE TAKING FROM THE STATE COFFERS, WE ARE TAKING FROM THE STATE COFFERS AND GETTING THIS BENEFIT BUT WE ARE NOT. WHEN I WAS UNDOCUMENTED AND MY MOTHER WAS UNDOCUMENTED, NONE OF US COULD APPLY FOR ANY OF THOSE STATE BENEFITS. YET WE PAID TAXES AND WE PAID INTO THE SYSTEM. YOU ARE LOOKING AT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. WE HAVE TO HAVE A FRANK CONVERSATION BUT THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF IT. THE CONVERSATION NEEDS TO HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DO NOT QUALIFY FOR ANY OF THESE SOCIAL SERVICES. WE CANNOT ACTUALLY GET THEM, BUT WE ARE CONTRIBUTING. THIS IS THAT NOTION THAT YOU AS A REPUBLICAN WOULD AGREE WITH, YOU CAN’T HAVE TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. THAT IS WHAT 11 MILLION UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS CONTINUE TO HAVE AND I CAN GUARANTEE –>>BUT THEY COUNT TOWARDS THE CENSUS. AS OF TODAY THEY DO. UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS COUNT TOWARD THE CENSUS AND THEY DO HAVE REPRESENTATION BECAUSE A LOT OF CONGRESS MEMBERS IN CALIFORNIA REPRESENTING DISTRICTS THAT HAVE MANY UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS THAT COUNT TOWARD THE POPULATION. THAT IS NOT TECHNICALLY FAIR.>>THE THING ABOUT THE LINE. IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION, THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN’T LET SLIDE. THAT THERE IS A LINE, WAITING IN LINE. THERE IS NO LINE.>>4 MILLION PEOPLE WAITING.>>THAT IS 4 MILLION PEOPLE IN VERY LIMITED SET PATHWAYS. TALKING ABOUT OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE –>>IF YOU LET ALL 4 MILLION IN TODAY, THERE WILL BE 4 MILLION MORE. WE HAVE AMNESTY AND NUMBERS GO UP. AS LONG AS THE DESIRE IS TO COME THE UNITED STATES, YOU WILL HAVE THESE LINES AND WHEN YOU HAVE A LINE, YOU WILL HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CROSS IT.>>BUT THERE IS ONLY A LINE FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY QUALIFY FOR THESE GUIDELINES.>>THERE ARE FOUR CATEGORIES OF LEGAL IMMIGRATION. THERE IS EMPLOYMENT-BASED, NUCLEAR FAMILY, HUMANITARIAN PROTECTIONS AND DIVERSITY LOTTERY WHICH IS TINY — NOT EVEN WORTH TO TALK ABOUT. IF YOU ARE JUST JOE — AND WHEREVER SITTING IN SWEDEN SINCE THAT GETS A LOT OF PLAY THESE DAYS WITH THE PRESIDENT, AND YOU WANT TO IMMIGRATE TO THE UNITED STATES, THERE ARE NO LINES FOR YOU TO WAIT.>>THE LINE IS FIGURATIVE. WHEN WE SAY LINE WE MEAN — [INDISCERNIBLE]>>BUT WHEN YOU SAY THAT, A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE –>>THERE IS A PROCESS BY WHICH THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE A REPUBLIC DEMOCRACY. WE DECIDED THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW PEOPLE IN. OUR COUNTRY IS VERY GENEROUS. WE HAVE OVER A MILLION PEOPLE BECOMING CITIZENS IN THE UNITED STATES.>>1.1 MILLION PEOPLE COME LEGALLY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS.>>THAT IS IMPORTANT. OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE ARE NOT STANDING IN A LINE. BUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT IN AND ARE WAITING. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE SAID THESE ARE GOING TO BE OUR LAWS AND SOMEHOW THERE ARE GROUPS IN THE UNITED STATES WHO SAY WHO CARES ABOUT THESE LAWS? MY FAMILY NEEDS TO GET HERE AND I UNDERSTAND BUT WE CANNOT DISREGARD THE LAW BECAUSE IT IS CUMBERSOME.>>WE DISREGARD IT EVERY TIME WE GO IN MEDDLING IN FOREIGN POLICIES AND THAT’S WHY WE END UP WITH PEOPLE WHO NEED TO COME TO THIS COUNTRY TO ACTUALLY LOOK FOR HELP. AND I CALL THEM PEOPLE FROM THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE AMERICA IS ACTUALLY A CONTINENT. THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES OFTEN FORGET THAT OVER 20 OR 40 YEARS WE DECIDED WE HAVE ACTUAL MONEY THAT COULD BE MADE IN SOME OF THESE COUNTRIES, LET’S GO MEDDLING IN THEIR POLITICS AND ECONOMY AND WE CREATE THE KINDS OF STORMS THAT LEAD TO THESE FOLKS COMING TO OUR BORDERS AND ASKING FOR HELP AND IT IS OFTEN THESE COUNTRIES THAT WE EXCLUDE FROM THIS PROVERBIAL LINE. THE LAST TIME WE TRIED TO BAN PEOPLE, WE INCLUDED VENEZUELA WHICH WE HAD A HAND IN, COLUMBIA WHICH WE HAD A HAND IN. WE CANNOT BE THAT ARROGANT THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO MESS ANOTHER COUNTRY UP, AND WHEN THEIR PEOPLE WANT TO COME GET OUR HELP WE SAY IT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM.>>I UNDERSTAND — JUAN GONZALEZ A JOURNALIST FROM DAILY NEWS, IN HIS BOOK “HARVEST OF EMPIRE,” HE SAYS A LOT OF WHAT YOU SAID THAT OUR MEDDLING IN A LOT OF THE AFFAIRS OF CENTRAL AMERICA AND SOUTH AMERICA HAS CREATED AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE UNDOCUMENTED. BUT WE HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN LATIN AMERICA FOR A LONG TIME. SOME VERY GOOD. IT IS EASY TO TRASH OUR INVOLVEMENT. I KNOW WE HAVE INCREDIBLE HOSPITALS IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC BECAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES. A LOT OF INVESTMENT IN MEXICO AND CENTRAL AMERICA BECAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE WE ARE A GENEROUS COUNTRY. THERE ARE ALSO SOME THINGS THAT ARE BAD. WE SUPPORTED SOME BAD GOVERNMENTS. IT IS TRUE. IN 1986 WE DID HAVE AN AMNESTY PLAN THAT ALLOWED 3 MILLION PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE, TO BE LEGALIZED. SINCE THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER 11 MILLION PEOPLE. THE WAY YOU SAY MEDDLING IGNORES THE INVESTMENT THAT AMERICA HAS MADE THAT HAS BEEN POSITIVE. WE MADE INCREDIBLE CONTRIBUTIONS TO LATIN AMERICA.>>THAT IS LIKE SAYING BECAUSE I INVESTED I NOW GET TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR COUNTRY.>>THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID. I SAID WE HAVE DONE GOOD.>>THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE THE BAD.>>I DID NOT SAY THAT. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, WE ARE A VERY GENEROUS COUNTRY. LATIN AMERICA HAS BENEFITED GREATLY. IF WE ARE SO AWFUL, WHY ARE MILLIONS TRYING TO GET IN?>>I AGREE. IF WE WERE SO BAD, I WOULD NOT BE HERE. I WOULD BE IN CANADA. BUT WE ARE A GREAT COUNTRY AND BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT COUNTRY, WE NEED TO ANALYZE OUR OWN BEHAVIOR AND UNDERSTAND WHERE WE HAVE MESSED UP AND HAVE THE COMPASSION THAT YOU HAVE EXPRESSED, WE CANNOT BE THE KIND OF COUNTRY THAT IGNORES THE BAD WE HAVE DONE AND SAYS IT IS OK TO HAVE CHILDREN IN CAGES AND USE THEM AGAINST THEIR PARENTS.>>THAT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.>>A COUPLE OF POINTS. NAFTA, THE TRADE AGREEMENT DID HIT THE MEXICAN ECONOMY AND DROVE MANY SMALL FARMERS OUT OF BUSINESS THAT THEN CAME NORTH. FOREIGN TRADE GOES DIFFERENT WAYS WHICH MR. TRUMP DOES NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND. THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN LOCALES AND THEY PAY FICA, THEY PAY FEDERAL MONEY. THE MONEY GOES TO WASHINGTON AND THEY ARE USING IT SCHOOLS OR HOSPITALS OR ROADS, FIRE PROTECTION. THERE IS AN IMBALANCE. ONE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO GIVE THOSE STATES WHICH ARE HIGHLY IMPACTED BY IMMIGRATION SOME FEDERAL MONEY. OCCASIONALLY THIS IS DONE BUT YOUR POINT ABOUT, WE HAVE TO HAVE BORDERS. I THINK IT IS AN ILLUSION.>>IT IS.>>I DON’T THINK WE ARE EVER GOING TO HAVE SECURE BORDERS. WE HAVE SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES TO THE SOUTH, SEVERAL THOUSAND MILES TO THE NORTH. THE GOVERNMENT CALLS PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS NONIMMIGRANTS. THEY MAY BE FOREIGN STUDENTS, TEMPORARY WORKERS. ABOVE ALL THEY ARE TOURISTS WHO COME IN FOR 90 DAYS AND TRAVEL AROUND AND DISAPPEAR AND BECOME UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS. OUR BORDERS ARE ALSO VERY LOOSE. YOU BUILD A WALL BUT WE CREATED — WE HAD 3 MILLION BORDER CROSSING CARDS AND THESE COULD EASILY BE FORGED. THEY GIVE A PERSON A RIGHT TO SHOP AND NOT WORK. EVERYONE KNOWS THESE CARDS ARE A KIND OF ABUSE. WE ALSO ALLOW IMMIGRANTS, PEOPLE WITH GREEN CARDS OR U.S. CITIZENS WHO LIVE IN CANADA OR MEXICO CROSS DAILY TO WORK. WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF CROSSINGS IN THE UNITED STATES. I GUESS THE PROBLEM TO GET THIS ALL UNDER CONTROL WOULD MAKE US SOME KIND OF A POLICE STATE. I DON’T SEE ANOTHER KIND OF SOLUTION. WE CAN TIGHTEN UP AND BUILD WALLS. WE CAN DO A LOT MORE WITH EMPLOYMENT, ESPECIALLY EMPLOYERS USING E-VERIFICATION SYSTEM. WHEN THE FIRST AMNESTY WENT IN, 3000 EMPLOYEES ON THE BORDER. WE NOW HAVE 20,000. THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY IS THE BIGGEST GROWTH DEPARTMENT WE HAVE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. IT HAS NOT STOPPED IT. IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT PROBLEM AND IT INEVITABLY IS GOING TO TURN LOOSE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT TOO CAREFUL ABOUT OTHER PERSONS’ LIVES. A VERY SORRY KIND OF SITUATION. I DON’T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY WAY OUT. SOME PEOPLE SUGGEST TEMPORARY WORKER PROGRAMS. THE PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THOSE IS THAT THEY LEAD TO ABUSES AND WORKERS — WE WENT UP TO VERMONT THIS SUMMER AND THE DAIRY FARMERS WANT WORKERS. THE KIDS DON’T WANT TO WORK AT THE DAIRY FARM WHEN IT IS 20 BELOW ZERO IN VERMONT. THEY EMPLOY MEXICANS WITHOUT DOCUMENTS BUT THE LOCAL SHERIFF AND THE TOWN KNOW THAT THE DAIRY INDUSTRY IS CRUCIAL SO THEY WILL NOT PICK PEOPLE UP. THEY LET IT GO. YOU GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND YOU CAN TELL WHO IS BUYING WHAT. YOU CAN TELL IN THE FALL WHEN THE JAMAICANS COME IN, WITH A LEGAL TEMPORARY WORKER PERMIT, THEY HARVEST APPLES. THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS TO DEAL WITH THE SITUATION BUT IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE MESSY. WE ARE VERY LUCKY IF WE CAN COME OUT WITH SOME KIND OF A CONTROLLED SITUATION THAT I JUST DON’T EXPECT A UTOPIA AND I THINK OUR PRESENT POLICY OF FAMILY UNIFICATION AND 140,000 PLACES FOR PEOPLE WITH SKILLS ARE THE BEST. I AM MORE DUBIOUS ABOUT THE LOTTERIES. NOT A VERY GOOD WAY TO BRING IMMIGRANTS IN. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOUTHERN BORDER BUT IF YOU SUDDENLY CLEAR UP THE BORDER PROBLEM, WHAT IS GOING TO STOP 10 YEARS FROM NOW MORE PEOPLE COMING IN? IT IS NOT EASY UNLESS YOU WANT TO GO INTO AN ARMED GARRISON POLICE STATE LIKE EASTERN EUROPE HAD FROM THE 1950s DOWN TO 1989. I HAVE BEEN IN EASTERN EUROPE WHEN THE COMMUNISTS WERE IN CONTROL AND THEY WERE UNDER CONTROL. THE FIRST THING THEY DO IS GRAB YOUR PASSPORT AT A HOTEL AND KEEP IT. I HAVE SAID ENOUGH.>>LET’S SAY THAT WE WANT PEOPLE TO FOLLOW A LEGAL PATHWAY. WE DON’T WANT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATE — LET’S PART FROM THAT PREMISE. TODAY, SEPTEMBER 25, THE THIRD VERSION OF THE MUSLIM BAN IS IN EFFECT. TOTAL ASYLUM BAN ON THE BORDER IN EFFECT. PUBLIC — IS GOING TO IN EFFECT IN 20 DAYS, WHICH ALLOWS PEOPLE TO BE DENIED ENTRY AND/OR RESIDENCY IF THEY HAD NOT ONLY USED PUBLIC BENEFITS BUT IF A BUREAUCRAT IN USA HAS DEEMED THAT THEY ARE LIKELY TO USE PUBLIC BENEFITS AT ANY POINT IN THE FUTURE. ALL OF THE EMPLOYMENT VISA CATEGORIES ARE A DISASTER. THE ADMINISTRATION IS CLOSE TO SETTING ITS REFUGEE CAP FOR FISCAL 2020 WITH SOME ADVOCATING FOR IT TO BE ZERO. NO REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT WHATSOEVER. IF WE SAY THAT WE WANT THERE TO BE A LEGAL PATHWAY TO RESETTLEMENT, AND THOSE PATHWAYS HAVE TO EXIST. CAN WE AGREE ON THAT? THE PATHWAYS NEED TO BE REAL. IT SEEMS LIKE THE DISCUSSION, IT IS KIND OF HARD TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION WHEN YOU ARE ADVOCATING, CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE ADVOCATING FOR THIS POPULATION TO KIND OF GAIN SOME SORT OF LEGAL STEP WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, ALMOST EVERY AVENUE –>>YOU MENTIONED SEVERAL THINGS THAT I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS PUSHING. THE FIRST THING WE SAID WAS THAT THEY’RE EXTREMISTS, AND THEY HAVE ONE SELECTION AND THEY ARE PUSHING THINGS I DON’T AGREE WITH. HE IS SURROUNDING HIMSELF WITH PEOPLE LIKE STEPHEN MILLER, WHO DISCUSSES ME WITH THEIR POLICIES. MY ARGUMENT IS, ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY ON THE PLANET DECIDES ITS LAWS AND WHO COMES IN AND HOW THEY COME IN. THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, WHERE MY PARENTS COME FROM, THEY HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH HAITI RIGHT NOW. I’VE READ A LOT ABOUT IT. A LOT OF IT IS RACIAL. A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH HISTORY. THEY DECIDED THEY WILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME INTO THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE A, B, C, AND D. IN MEXICO THEY HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH HONDURAS. WE GO TO OTHER PARTS OF EUROPE AND YOU CAN’T EVEN BECOME A CITIZEN UNLESS YOU HAVE THEIR BLOOD IN YOUR SYSTEM. ALL COUNTRIES ON THE PLANET HAVE DECIDED WHO GETS INTO THEIR COUNTRY AND HOW. WE ALSO HAVE DECIDED. YOU CANNOT DISMISS THE NOTION THAT WE ARE A COUNTRY OF LAWS BY SAYING WE ARE SPECIAL THOUGH. WE ARE A SPECIAL COUNTRY. WE’RE VERY GENEROUS AS I SAID, BUT YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE AND RESPECT OUR LAWS. ANYONE WHO SAYS WE DON’T HAVE TO IS SENDING THE WRONG MESSAGE. IF YOU THINK YOU WILL WIN ELECTION BY DECRIMINALIZING UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND AND YOU WILL GET TRUMP FOR FOUR MORE YEARS PUSHING THIS EXTREMIST POLICY. THESE AREN’T THINGS THE PRESIDENT GETS TO DECIDE. HE DECIDES WHO COMES IN. IF HE DECIDES HE DOES NOT WANT PEOPLE FROM SEVERAL COUNTRIES, WHO HAPPEN TO BE PREDOMINANTLY MUSLIM — THE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID HE CAN DO THAT. THAT’S A FACT.>>THAT IS ONE POLICY. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST LITIGATION.>>YOU ARE AN ATTORNEY AS WELL, RIGHT?>>YES.>>WE HAVE TO STOP SAYING DECRIMINALIZATION IMMIGRATION. CRIMINAL LAWS AND IMMIGRATION LAWS ARE DIFFERENT. ONE IS CIVIL AND ONE IS CRIMINAL. THE WAY THEY ARE TREATING US IS LIKE CRIMINALS BUT IN THE LAW, THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN, ONE IS A CIVIL MATTER AND ONE IS A CRIMINAL MATTER. THEY ARE TREATING US, LIKE IT IS CRIMINAL LAW. THEY SHOULD GIVE US ATTORNEYS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION IF THAT IS HOW THEY’RE GOING TO TREAT IT BUT THAT IS ANOTHER CONVERSATION. I AGREE WITH YOU. AS A LAWYER I THINK THAT EACH COUNTRY GETS TO CHOOSE THEIR LAWS. BUT WE HAVE A HISTORY OF A COUNTRY THAT WAS CREATED BY IMMIGRANTS. THE SOUL OF A COUNTRY THAT WAS CREATED BY IMMIGRANTS. IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUT THAT AS PART OF THE ACTUAL PROCESS THEN WHY ARE WE HERE? WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THIS COUNTRY AND THE 11 MILLION, PROBABLY CLOSER TO 15 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED IN THIS COUNTRY? WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE SOUL OF THE COUNTRY THAT CREATED IT. IF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT CHOSE ITS LAWS, A LOT OF THEM ARE COMING HERE LOOKING FOR A BETTER LIFE WHETHER IT IS BECAUSE WE MEDDLED OR THERE WAS WAR OR BECAUSE THERE IS POVERTY, WHATEVER THE REASON IS, IT IS THEM FLEEING TO US. WE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND THINK ABOUT THE SOUL OF THE NATION WHICH ARE THE IMMIGRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY AND HOW DO WE TREAT THEM HUMANELY AND HOW DO WE CONTINUE TO GROW IT BECAUSE IF WE CLOSE ALL OF OUR BORDERS AND PUT LAWS THAT CREATE THIS PROVERBIAL LINE THAT TURNS 4 MILLION TO 10 MILLION PEOPLE, WE ARE GOING TO DIE OFF AND BECOME ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES AND WE DON’T WANT TO BE ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES. WE ARE DIFFERENT THAN THEM.>>BEFORE I GO TO QUESTIONS I WANT TO ASK YOU QUICKLY. I DON’T WANT TO IGNORE THE CENSUS QUESTION.>>MY DISTRICT IS GOING TO BE THE HARDEST HIT IN THE ENTIRE STATE.>>DO YOU THINK UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WILL TAKE PART IN THE CENSUS OR IS THE FEAR GOING TO KEEP THEM FROM FILLING OUT THOSE FORMS?>>DO YOU WANT THE POLITICAL ANSWER OR THE REAL ANSWER?>>BOTH.>. THE POLITICAL ANSWER IS, I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE SURE MY PEOPLE ARE COUNTED BUT I AM VERY CONCERNED THAT THIS PRESIDENT AND HIS MINIONS AND THE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR HIM DECIDED THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE A GOOD IDEA ARE GOING TO GET THEIR WAY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TERRIFIED. TERRIFIED OF SIMPLY ANSWERING A QUESTION, TEARING THEM APART FROM THE ONLY COUNTRY THEY HAVE KNOWN AS HOME. I AM NOT VERY CONFIDENT. I THINK WE ARE GOING TO LOSE A SEAT OR TWO IN NEW YORK AND I AM ACTUALLY, AFTER SPEAKING TO SOME FOLKS WHO KNOW ABOUT THIS ISSUE MORE THAN I DO, MY DISTRICT IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE HARDEST HIT DISTRICTS IN THE ENTIRE STATE WHEN IT COMES TO BEING UNDERCOUNTED. I WAS OUT YESTERDAY AT THE TRAIN STATION GIVING OUT INFORMATION, SAYING THAT THE CENSUS IS COMING NEXT YEAR BUT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID AND RIGHTLY SO.>>YES MA’AM –>>I GO TO THE COLLEGE OF STATEN ISLAND AND I WANTED TO KNOW WITH ELECTION SEASON CLEARLY ON THE WAY, HOW DO YOU THINK THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES HAVE BEEN APPROACHING THE IMMIGRATION CRISIS, ESPECIALLY IN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE DEMOCRATIC DEBATES?>>YOU JUMP IN AND THEN WE’LL JUMP ON YOU. [LAUGHTER]>>I AM VERY PRACTICAL. I AM A CENTRIST WITH THESE ISSUES. THIS PRESIDENT WON THIS ELECTION WITH A LITTLE LESS THAN 70,000 VOTES. THAT IS METLIFE STADIUM IN THREE STATES.>>BUT HE LOST BY 3.5 MILLION.>>THAT IS NOT HOW WE ELECT OUR PRESIDENT. WHAT WE NEED IS, IN ORDER TO DEFEAT TRUMP, YOU NEED MICHIGAN, PENNSYLVANIA AND WISCONSIN. HE CAME WITHIN LESS THAN A POINT OF WINNING MINNESOTA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE. I AM AFRAID THAT FROM WHAT I HEAR IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY DEBATE FOR PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION, IT IS ONE THAT IS GOING TO GUARANTEE THAT THOSE STATES VOTE THE SAME WAY AGAIN. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THOSE THREE STATES, MIDDLE AMERICA BY TELLING PEOPLE YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM OFFERING FULL HEALTH INSURANCE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE VIOLATED OUR LAWS. THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. THE QUESTION OF DRIVER’S LICENSES HASN’T EVEN COME UP YET. THERE ARE TWO OR THREE STATES WHO ALLOW FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED TO HAVE DRIVER’S LICENSES, WHICH ARE LEGAL — IT IS A HUGE ISSUE. WHEN GUYS IN WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA WHERE MODERATE DEMOCRATS BEAT REPUBLICANS, WHEN THEY DISCOVER THIS AS A PROBLEM IN THEIR STATE, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WIN THIS ELECTION. YOU WILL DRIVE UP THE NUMBERS IN NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA.>>THAT ISSUE IS CUTTING YOUR — THAT IS AN ISSUE OF SYMBOLISM AS OPPOSED TO SUBSTANCE AND IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE WAY THAT THIS PRESIDENT IS PLAYING ON THE FEARS OF A REALITY WHICH IS THAT THIS COUNTRY IS ON ITS WAY TO BEING, THIS IS AN OXYMORON, AND MAJORITY MINORITY COUNTRY, JUST THE WAY THIS CITY IS A MAJORITY MINORITY CITY AND THAT CHANGE THE POLITICS.>>I HAVE TO AGREE BECAUSE HAVING BEEN FRONT AND CENTER ON THE FIGHT FOR DRIVER’S LICENSES IN NEW YORK.>>WHY WOULDN’T YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO IS DRIVING? [INDISCERNIBLE]>>YOU KNOW WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS AND THIS IS A FACT, I HAVE HAD CLIENTS LOSE THEIR LICENSES BECAUSE THEY DID NOT PAY CHILD SUPPORT. WHEN YOU ARE AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT, AND 99.8% ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE BUT YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THE BACKGROUND CHECK. WE DON’T KNOW WHO YOU ARE. WE DON’T KNOW WHAT YOUR BACKGROUND IN DRIVING IS. YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THE PROPER PROCESS. WE DON’T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A DRUNK DRIVING RECORD. IF YOU ARE COMING IN UNDOCUMENTED YOU HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS. THESE PEOPLE — THESE PEOPLE UNDOCUMENTED WITHOUT ANY DOCUMENTS AT ALL AND THEY COME TO NEW YORK, THEY ARE NOW AT AN ADVANTAGE BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW ANYTHING — THEY CAN OWN MONEY TO THE STATES IN JUDICIAL JUDGMENT. WE DON’T KNOW ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T GONE THROUGH THE BACKGROUND BUT IN ORDER TO GET A LICENSE HERE IF YOU’RE A CITIZEN, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE NO JUDICIAL JUDGEMENTS YOU OWE, YOUR CHILD SUPPORT IS UP-TO-DATE, YOU HAVE NO DWIs OR ANY OTHER FELONIES ON YOUR BACKGROUND. THOSE ARE REAL ISSUES WE DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE WE ARE SO COMPASSIONATE –>>I AM ARGUING. I THINK IT IS A RATIONAL ISSUE.>>YOU THINK IT IS RATIONAL FOR PEOPLE WE DON’T KNOW WHO THEIR BACKGROUND IS?>>THIS IS AN ENTIRE DISCUSSION.>>FOR THE VIEWERS, BOB LOVES DRAMA. [LAUGHTER] THIS IS HIM SCRIPTED AND I THINK THIS IS GREAT. I AM MENTIONING THE FACT THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IS VERY IMPORTANT AND YOU NEED TO CONNECT TO MIDDLE AMERICA AND WHEN YOU START LEANING A LITTLE TOO FAR-LEFT, YOU’RE GOING TO LOSE OUT.>>THIS IS THE COUNTRY OF EXTREMES. YOU GET THE KIND OF EXTREMES THAT INSTILL FEAR AND POINTS EVERY SINGLE BAD THING THAT HAPPENS IN THIS NATION TO IMMIGRANTS. IT MUST’VE BEEN AN IMMIGRANT. THAT IS HOW WE ENDED UP WITH THE PRESIDENT WE HAVE NOW BECAUSE WE ENDED UP BLAMING EVERYTHING ON IMMIGRANTS. HE CAPITALIZED ON THAT, FUND RAISED ON THAT AND HE MARRIED THAT BUT THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE. WE END UP NOW WHERE WE ARE. I PARTIALLY AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT IS TO HAVE AN IMMIGRATION PLAN, A CANDIDATE WITH A REALISTIC IMMIGRATION PLAN. I HAVE MADE AN ENDORSEMENT OF ELIZABETH WARREN BECAUSE I THINK HER IMMIGRATION PLAN IS THAT MUCH MORE REALISTIC THAN OTHER ONES I HAVE SEEN OUT THERE. IN CERTAIN ASPECTS, YOU HAVE TO BE PRAGMATIC. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE NATION UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS AMAZING TO RUN IN POETRY, BUT YOU CAN’T ALWAYS GOVERN IN POETRY. YOU HAVE TO BE PRAGMATIC. IF WE KEEP HAVING THESE EXTREMES WE ARE GOING TO END UP WITH TRUMP ALL OVER AGAIN.>>DO YOU KNOW WHY TRUMP REALLY WANTS TO SEND THEM BACK? HE WANTS TO GET RID OF HIS WIFE AND IN-LAWS. [LAUGHTER] I MEAN THAT. HE CAN DIVORCE HIS WIFE AND THEN PICK UP SOME 30-YEAR-OLD, BUT THE DAMN IN-LAWS WOULD STILL BE THERE. YOU SEND THEM BACK AND TELL THE STATE DEPARTMENT NO VISA.>>WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.>>THAT IS THE JOKE THAT I WILL NOT MAKE, THE FACT THAT TWO OF HIS WIVES ARE IMMIGRANTS PROVES THERE ARE CERTAIN JOBS AMERICANS WON’T DO. [LAUGHTER]>>DOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS ARE ALSO BEING THREATENED AND RIDICULED. AS A COLLEGE STUDENT TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH MY CAREER, WHAT PROCESS IS BEING DONE SO I COULD CALM MY FEARS AS I MOVE FORWARD IN LIFE?>>I ASSUME WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS THAT EVEN DOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS SUFFER FROM THE DISCRIMINATION THAT IS PUT ONTO UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE DISCRIMINATION ARE MAKING NO DISTINCTION. THAT IS VERY REAL.>>THAT IS PART OF THE IGNORANCE THAT HAS BEEN EMPOWERED BY THIS PRESIDENCY. SOMEONE SAYS OH YOU MUST BE UNDOCUMENTED BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOU LOOK.>>OR BECAUSE OF YOUR ACCENT.>>THERE IS NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHO IS DOCUMENTED OR NOT DOCUMENTED. YOU CAN’T TELL. WHEN I WAS UNDOCUMENTED YOU COULDN’T TELL. I HAVE THE SAME BROOKLYN ACCENT MY ENTIRE LIFE.>>BROOKLYN PEOPLE DON’T HAVE AN ACCENT.>>YES WE DO. [LAUGHTER] I AM FROM QUEENS NOW, SO IT’S GONE. ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE DOING IS WORKING WITH STATE AGENCIES AND CITY AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THEIR RIGHTS. REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU ARE DOCUMENTED OR UNDOCUMENTED OR JUST ARRIVED OR HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 20 YEARS, THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS AND CITY LAWS THAT PROTECT YOU AND WE ARE WORKING TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE ACTUALLY FUNCTIONING BECAUSE WE CAN PROMISE YOU THE WORLD BUT IF THE CITY AND STATE AGENCIES ARE NOT TALKING TO EACH OTHER OR NOT WORKING THE WAY THEY NEED TO, YOU WILL NOT GET THE PROTECTIONS YOU NEED. A LOT OF IT IS EDUCATION BECAUSE EVEN CITIZENS DON’T UNDERSTAND THEIR RIGHTS AND WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE OUT THERE. I KNOW SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES AND I GO OUT THERE ALL THE TIME TO TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR EDUCATION RIGHTS, THEIR HOUSING RIGHTS THAT ARE ALL INTERSECTIONAL BECAUSE MANY OF US ARE IN THESE LOW WAGE WORKING IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES THAT ARE AFFECTED WHETHER YOU’RE DOCUMENTED OR NOT.>>IF I CAN OFFER ONE DIRECT PERSONAL ADVICE — EMPLOYERS TEND TO GET SKITTISH WHEN THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON AND YOU SHOULD BE VERY WELL READ ON WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO FOR YOU. DON’T LET THAT HAPPEN. YOU HAVE TO SELF ADVOCATE AND DON’T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS GOING ON.>>YES SIR?>>MY NAME IS JUSTIN FROM BROOKLYN COLLEGE. ALONG THE LINES OF AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM AND FOREIGN POLICY, AMERICAN HEGEMONY DURING THE COLD WAR AND THE WAR ON DRUGS HAS CAUSED US TO SUPPORT MURDEROUS DICTATORS THAT CREATED SITUATIONS IN WHICH ASYLUM-SEEKERS SOUGHT REFUGE IN THE UNITED STATES. ARE HISTORIANS ACKNOWLEDGING THESE EVENT? ARE POLITICIANS KEEPING THIS HISTORY IN MIND WHEN CREATING FUTURE IMMIGRATION POLICY?>>IT IS THE POINT THAT WE HAVE MADE WHICH IS THAT AMERICAN POLICIES WHETHER IT IS TRADE POLICY, WHETHER THE KIND OF INTERVENTIONS IN LATIN AMERICA OR IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES, HAS CAUSED PEOPLE TO FLEE THOSE COUNTRIES. YOU DESTROY THEIR HOMELAND, THEY WILL TRY TO COME HERE. FOR ALL THE STUFF THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON, THERE IS A PERCEPTION AROUND THE WORLD FOR MANY PEOPLE THAT WE ARE STILL THE LAST BEST HOPE FOR WHERE YOU WANT TO COME. YOU ARE THE HISTORIAN ON THE PANEL.>>THE BELIEF THAT AMERICA IS EXCEPTIONAL IS BY AND LARGE GOING OUT. IT HAS BEEN FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. IF YOU READ WHAT HISTORIANS ARE SAYING, THEY JUST DON’T BELIEVE IT. FOR IMMIGRATION HISTORIANS, THEY’RE LIBERAL PRO-IMMIGRANTS. — A NEW BOOK ON NATIVISM, A NEW BOOK COMING OUT ON NOVEMBER ON THE CRUSADE AGAINST IMMIGRATION. MY COLLEAGUE AT NYU HAS A NEW BOOK COMING OUT, I KNOW THESE THREE PEOPLE AND BELIEVE ME THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE AN ANTI-IMMIGRANT POINT OF VIEW. AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM IS SOMETHING I ATTEST BUT I THINK THE PROFESSION IS MOVING AGAINST IT. THE MEXICAN WAR WAS A STEEL. ATROCITIES WERE DONE. THE SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR. THEN WE TOOK A TWO AND A HALF BLOODY WAR TO CONQUER THE PHILIPPINES. WE LIVE WITH THE LARGEST SLAVE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD BY 1860s, IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE AT LEAST, AND JUST TOO MANY OF THESE THINGS. I WAS READING AT HOME TODAY, A NEW HISTORY OF RECONSTRUCTION AND IT IS NOT A NICE HISTORY.>>AND I WOULD SAY SHORTLY THAT POLITICIANS OR PUBLIC SERVANTS, LIKE I’D LIKE TO CALL MYSELF, THE GOOD ONES, WE HAVE IT IN MIND, WE KEEP IN MIND, BECAUSE UNLESS WE KNOW OUR HISTORY WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD. THE BAD ONES LIKE THE PRESIDENCY CHOOSE THE THINGS THEY WANT TO REMEMBER WHAT THEY WANT TO CHANGE.>>HI. MY QUESTION IS FROM A COMPASSIONATE STANDPOINT, HOW CAN WE IMPLEMENT MORE PROGRAMS AT CUNY FOR UNDOCUMENTED STUDENTS FOR THEM TO FEEL SAFE?>>CUNY IS PARTICULARLY WELCOMING. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE OF IMMIGRANT STUDENTS AT CUNY. I SUSPECT IT’S VERY HIGH. I SUSPECT THERE IS A LARGE NUMBER OF UNDOCUMENTED STUDENTS AT CUNY. DOES ANYBODY WANT TO TACKLE THAT?>>MOST CUNYs ARE SAFE SPACES. THE BMCC MADE IT VERY CLEAR IT WOULD BE A SAFE SPACE FOR STUDENTS TO COME IN, A SANCTUARY COLLEGE.>>MANY OF THE SCHOOLS ARE OPENING UP IMMIGRANT CENTERS. BROOKLYN OPENED ONE. JOHN JAY OPENED ONE. MY COLLEAGUES AND I ARE GOING TO BE ADVOCATING TO ENSURE THERE IS ONE IN EVERY CUNY. THERE IS EVEN MANY OF US WHO ARE TEACHING, ASSISTING PROFESSORS WITH DACA. IT ISN’T JUST ABOUT HAVING THE CENTER THERE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO ME, THE RESOURCES EXISTED BUT I DIDN’T KNOW THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE NOBODY WAS COMING TO ME AND TELLING ME THEY WERE THERE. THERE IS THIS EXPECTATION THAT BECAUSE I AM PART OF THE CAMPUS I SOMEHOW HAVE THE TIME ON TOP OF MY TWO JOBS TO PAY THE TUITION TO ACTUALLY GO GET THE RESOURCES. ONE OF THE THINGS I AM URGING CUNY IS TO DO A BETTER JOB OF PUTTING OUT THE INFORMATION THAT THE RESOURCES ARE THERE BECAUSE MANY OF US DON’T HAVE THE TIME TO GO TO THE RESOURCES. THE RESOURCES HAVE TO COME TO US.>>ONE OF THE OTHER POINTS IS THAT DATING BACK TO THE KOCH ADMINISTRATION — WOULD SAY THAT CITY AGENCIES WOULD NOT COOPERATE, WOULD NOT TURN IN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WHO REPORT A CRIME. YOU WANT THEM TO REPORT A CRIME. THEY WOULD NOT TURN IN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WHO GO TO THE HOSPITAL. YOU DON’T WANT THEM TO SPREAD COMMUNICABLE DISEASES. MY ARGUMENT ABOUT THE DRIVERS LICENSE, THERE IS A SENSIBLE WAY YOU HAVE TO LIVE FROM TODAY TO TOMORROW AND IT IS MUCH THE SAME AS CUNY. NOW YOU SEE IT WITH THE RESISTANCE, PRETTY WIDE RESISTANCE AMONG CITY AND STATE AGENCIES AND COURTHOUSES.>>IT USED TO BE AN EXECUTIVE ORDER AND IT IS A LAW NOW.>>I THINK IT IS AN UNTESTED LAW BECAUSE I AM NOT SURE WHAT THE FEDERAL PREEMPTION ULTIMATELY WOULD SUCCEED. IT IS A MORE PRACTICAL — I AM NOT DOING A BROAD THING OF SAYING SANCTUARY CITIES. IT IS TIED INTO BEING A SANCTUARY CITY, BUT IT IS THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF TRYING TO GET FROM TODAY TO TOMORROW.>>I THINK CUNY IS PRETTY GOOD WITH THIS ALREADY BUT EDUCATION AT LARGE, IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE INFORMATION SHARING IN MIND, IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME THAT SOME SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER OR SOMEBODY WILL JOT DOWN A NOTE THEY SUSPECT THAT X OR Y MAY BE INVOLVED IN A GANG AND FOR A LOT OF THESE IMMIGRATION RELATED TERMINATIONS THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT REALLY NEED MUCH EVIDENCE AT ALL FOR SOMEONE TO BE CONSIDERED INELIGIBLE. SOMETHING ON THEIR RECORD ANYWHERE WHERE THEY ARE SUSPECTED OF HAVING GANG INVOLVEMENT OR SOMETHING. I THINK IN EDUCATION THAT IS ONE OF THE BIGGER ISSUES. BEING CAREFUL NOT TO PUT SOMETHING ON SOMEONE’S RECORD THAT WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT.>>I AM A STUDENT AT YORK COLLEGE AND MY QUESTION TO THE FIVE OF YOU IS THERE WASN’T ENOUGH DISCUSSION ON DACA TONIGHT. THERE WAS THAT BRIEF DISCUSSION ON THE STATES THAT HAVE ATTEMPTED TO DECLARE IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL. MY QUESTION IS, I WAS HEARING A LOT ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT CUTTING THE IMAGINARY LINE. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO CUT THE LINE UNINTENTIONALLY LIKE THOSE DACA RECIPIENTS WHO WERE BROUGHT TO THE UNITED STATES AS YOUNG CHILDREN? THEY ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT DECISION ON THEIR OWN. MY QUESTION IS, WOULD THEY BE CONSIDERED CUTTING THE LINE AS WELL AND WITH THE FIVE OF YOU IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, COULD THE FIVE OF YOU SEE THESE DACA RECIPIENTS HAVE A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP?>>DACA WAS GOING TO PASS IN 2001. IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THEN 9/11 AND EVERYTHING ELSE — THE PROBLEM NOW IS IT JUST KEEPS GETTING TIED TO OTHER STUFF — EVERY TIME THERE IS A DACA BILL, IT IS TIED TO DRAMATICALLY CUTTING FAMILY REUNIFICATION. I THINK IT CAN HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS. IT HIGHLY DEPENDS ON THE RESULTS OF THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. AMONG IMMIGRATION PROPOSALS, IT IS ONE OF THE MORE POPULAR ONES.>>IT HAD A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS. THE PROBLEM HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN MY OWN PARTY, MANY DEMOCRATS TOO AFRAID TO ACTUALLY PULL THE TRIGGER AND DO THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE THEY ARE COUNTING ON THE FACT THAT THEY ARE ALWAYS GOING TO VOTE DEMOCRAT. IT IS TIME WE ACTUALLY HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE BECAUSE WE DESERVE, OUR COMMUNITY DESERVES IT. THE DREAMER MOVEMENT HAS SHOWN US THAT EVEN WITHOUT DOCUMENTS, YOU HAVE THE POLITICAL POWER THAT MANY OTHER GROUPS COULD ONLY DREAM OF. ONE OF THE THINGS I URGE PEOPLE IS TO GO OUT AND GET OTHERS REGISTERED TO VOTE SO THEY CAN VOTE ON YOUR BEHALF, FOR THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO BE IN OFFICE SO THAT YOU CAN SEND A SHOUT. WHAT THEY WANT TO DO NOW, WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN WANTING TO DO IS USE YOUR NEED TO STAY IN THIS COUNTRY TO DIVIDE YOU FROM YOUR FAMILY. THEY SAY YOUR PARENTS OR YOU. THEY CAN’T ASK YOU TO CHOOSE BETWEEN DEPORTING YOUR PARENTS AND YOU STAYING IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT IS INHUMANE. WE HAVE TO CHOOSE THE KIND OF ELECTED OFFICIALS, BE IT DEMOCRAT OR SOME REPUBLICANS THAT ACTUALLY REPRESENT THE NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITY AND WHAT OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS IS FAMILIES TO STAY TOGETHER.>>I THINK DACA IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. MR. MILLER GOT INTO THE PRESIDENT’S EAR AND SAID DACA IS AMNESTY AND YOUR BASES GOING TO HATE YOU FOR IT AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE MONEY WAS GONE FOR IT. THE ONLY WAY THIS HAPPENS IS IF YOU ELECT OR NOMINATE SOMEONE WHO IS PRACTICAL ON THIS ISSUE. IF YOU HAVE A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE WHO GOES UP ON THAT STAGE AND SAYS HE IS GOING TO DECRIMINALIZE IMMIGRATION AND WHAT TRANSLATES TO OPEN BORDERS AND THEN YOU MAY NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE BUT THAT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT –>>I’M GOING TO HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF. I AM GETTING THE WE HAVE TO SAY GOODBYE SIGN.>>JUST REMEMBER YOU CAN’T GET THIS DONE IF YOU GO TOO FAR-LEFT.>>THANK YOU ALL, WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON CUNY FORUM. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪

2 thoughts on “The U.S. Immigration Debate… | CUNY Forum

  1. No debate. Illegals should be immediately deported and their countries of origin charged for everything it costs while their here. Legal immigration needs to be more selective and restrictive. There’s a myth the US just let anyone in and that’s what made us great. That’s not true.

  2. Entering the US illegally is a criminal offense which makes anyone doing so a criminal. Criminals must live in the shadows to avoid the LAW. The law says criminals must be apprehended. Saying "undocumented" is a candy coated term to cover up the crime of illegal invasion. Tax only the people who are for illegal immigration not those against to pay for all illegals.

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